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Fountain/Forehand Failure?
- Thread starter Gordo
- Start date
XtremeRacing
Competitor
Not Reggies boat ...put the blame where it should be.
MANITIE
Charter Member / Competitor
I always thought the SVL rules were like the F1 rules other then the X dim., ext box/lower, and ballest tank rule, other then that I thought it was the same...
The good thing now with Smitty and John handling the rules...is the non-involved will have no say...along with the racers..the rules will be set and that will be it...then you guys can just go and race...
imco offshore
Competitor / Charter Member
:iagree: i,m still willing to bet that someone will say ,,,WELL THAT IS WHAT IT USTO TO BE ,, right after they get beat,,
they need to read the NEW RULES build their boat accordingly , and come back and race ,,they will have all winter ,,instead of putting it in the back of a warehouse for 5 months ,then pulling it out and wash it off ,,and think it automagicly updated it self..,,:banghead:
they need to read the NEW RULES build their boat accordingly , and come back and race ,,they will have all winter ,,instead of putting it in the back of a warehouse for 5 months ,then pulling it out and wash it off ,,and think it automagicly updated it self..,,:banghead:
Wreckdoctor
Competitor
Not quite sure what your saying here George, as a group we are trying to move forward in a positive manner, appears we will be getting some really good direction with the help of the orgs. Really wish as racers we could keep this moving in the right direction, you more than anyone should realize public perception of our class means alot, not only to the general public but possible sponsors as well. We are headed in a good direction, let's keep it that way.
imco offshore
Competitor / Charter Member
I too just want everyone to step up and attack next season hard ,,I will do what ever i can to help anyone go faster and be safe!..I know you are one of the few who will come back with a vengance,,,I just want the ones who don,t do anything ,not get upset with the ones of us who do . .Lance I know you understand what i,m saying,,this class is going into it,s comming out season,,!!I agree ,,
ps Lance start a new thread ,so we don,t keep posting on this Forhand failure thread..
ps Lance start a new thread ,so we don,t keep posting on this Forhand failure thread..
Wreckdoctor
Competitor
I agree George, last year I was one of the people sitting out there wondering if I wanted to jump into the Svl class and was really on the fence for quite a while, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of folks out there in the same position I was right now. I know you and the rest of us that raced this season in Svl welcome anyone that is interested in our class to get in and join us for a strong upcoming season with some clear direction from the orgs.
The main reason I got in this class was because of the overwhelming help and support I got from everyone in the class before I ever bought a boat, you personally helped me find my boat and got me in touch with the prior owner.
This type of professionalism is what we need to get back to to help get new teams and boats out on the course.
There are exhisting running boats out there that need to be on the water, and manufacturers that want to showcase their boats in our class, my goal this off season is to help make the Svl class the best on the water next season.
Thanks again for helping me make the move and getting us out there on the course.
The main reason I got in this class was because of the overwhelming help and support I got from everyone in the class before I ever bought a boat, you personally helped me find my boat and got me in touch with the prior owner.
This type of professionalism is what we need to get back to to help get new teams and boats out on the course.
There are exhisting running boats out there that need to be on the water, and manufacturers that want to showcase their boats in our class, my goal this off season is to help make the Svl class the best on the water next season.
Thanks again for helping me make the move and getting us out there on the course.
imco offshore
Competitor / Charter Member
me too Lance ,,lets post on the POSTIVE THREAD ,,and let this horse die in peace,:beatdeadhorse5:
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
Wish they were. And I think the racers should have input before the rules are set in stone.
The bigger gray issues are ballast tanks, gear ratios, prop diameters, correcting bottom issues vs modifying the bottom, rpm, modified ecms, aerodynamic tendencies of the hull design, no changes to the design of the drive vs adding a nose cone which must be approved by the org 30 days prior to competition, etc. Many of these things are unpoliceable. Like bottom modifications. How do you make sure a boat still fits the mold of a homologized hull? That is the only requirement in one org, and in another there are no requirements governing hull modifications.
Most of the issues are because of differences in rules between the orgs. Like running the 1.69 gear in SBI vs not allowed in the other two. But, then one team, ran the 1.69 in one of the other orgs, with the bigger prop, because it was legal elsewhere. Same with bottom modifications vs bottom changes and reprogramming ecm's.
I'd like to see no ballast tanks, 1.50 max gear ratio, 15.75 diameter prop max, no hull water pickups allowed, a maximum rpm measured with a data acquisition unit, etc.
If the drive issue and prop diameter are not addressed, one of these days we will see a surface piercing Bravo type drive because of a new hull and prop design. I'd guess a 3 to 5 mph advantage with the right combination.
Another issue is with the ecm's being allowed to be modified, a high dollar team can eliminate all others as we've seen, by reprogramming the late model merc to run at around 6000+ rpm where the earlier merc's will not, but it will probably only last around 30 hours based on testing, but will make an additional 40hp. But, if you have the money, who cares. You can still go collect trophies. That is why a maximum rpm should be addressed.
Anyway, I hope some of these things are addressed. The small improvements to a hull you can do in your garage means nothing compared to having unlimited funds to reprogram ecm's and rebuild engines with a short life span.
And, as we've certainly found out, the tech rules need to be simple enough that the boats get teched who place in the top three at every race. If they are too complex, you have those who know they won't get teched only getting caught cheating by accident when making a tactical error.
I firmly believe a sealed engine program only makes it easy for the serious cheaters to avoid detection because they know they will not get teched if they have duplicated the seals. And, as we know in today's world, duplicating the seals with rapid prototype technology is only a couple days work if you have the funds available to you.
That is why I think Whistler compression units and P&G cubic inch measurement units should be used vs sealed engines. That, combined with the maximum rpm measured while racing, weight minimum, width min/max, height minx, prop diameter max, water pickup in drive, and possibly drive height will make it so that it will almost be impossible to cheat.
No ballast tanks is also to eliminate cronic cheaters. In P1 they have no water pickups allowed other than engine cooling, and it must be external to the engine on entry and exit.
I would also always leave the clause of some kind about parity. My best thought is it should be RPM's so that other boat builders and engine builders can participate.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
If you wish, I can move my post to the other thread.
Big Time
New member
Can someone tell me what type of competitive advantage an aluminum flywheel is going to translate into on the race course. Does it really free up enough HP to really make a difference? Really not looking to get into the moral/ethical side of this, strictly interested in the technical side. Also, maybe I missed it, but what was the penalty levied on the Fountain team/boat after the infraction was found?
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Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
There are several benefits.
First off acceleration.
Another benefit is that this boat appears to be above the minimum weight so it reduced overall weight by about 6 gallons of fuel (2 laps worth).
Finally most will agree that this is a small piece in a big puzzle. I was told this was a neutral balance flywheel. To use this the entire engine would have a different internal balancing methodology than a stock 525. To utilize an neutral/internal balanced flywheel you can be confident the entire engine has been disassembled and rebalanced etc.
Steve
XtremeRacing
Competitor
It doesnt matter who sealed the engine, you can get all the new seals u want. They can be changed after u get the motor back from the shop.
Dont know it for a fact but if it a Fountain you can bet it has Merc seals on it.
Wahoo 214
Charter Member
That is my point exactly. If they are that loose with thier seals, get rid of them. Seals should be numbered and logged on a website for all racers to see the number, owner, enigne number and location.
XtremeRacing
Competitor
Like anything else in life get rid of them the next is just as bad.
Sealing hasnt, doesnt, and won't work time for change. Nothign is perfect and there is no easy anwser to fix it but change cant hurt its broken already.