Ford Sweeps Car and Truck of the Year

[Tommy Gun]

Tesla Motors :USA:

The Roadster is an American car with a vehicle identification number common to all cars considered "American." But like all production cars, it has parts from around the world. The body panels come from French supplier Sotira. These are sent from France to Hethel, U.K., where Tesla contracts with Lotus to build the Roadster's unique chassis.[22][23] The Roadster shares roughly 6 percent of its components with the Lotus Elise; shared components include the windshield, air bags, some tires, some dashboard parts, and suspension components. The Roadster's single-speed gearbox is made in Detroit to Tesla's specifications by Auburn Hills, Mich.-based supplier Borg Warner. Brakes and airbags are made by Siemens in Germany, and some crash testing was conducted at Siemens as well.[24]

For Roadsters bound for customers in North America, the chassis is then sent to Menlo Park, California, for final assembly. For Roadsters bound for customers in Europe or elsewhere outside of North America, the chassis is sent to a facility near Hethel, U.K., for final assembly. At these final assembly locations, Tesla employees install the entire powertrain, which consists of the battery pack, power electronics module, gearbox and motor. Tesla also performs rigorous "pre-delivery inspection" on every car before customers take ownership.

 

[Ratickle]

24 hours Le Mans: By far the most successful marque in the history of the race is Porsche, who have taken 16 overall victories, including seven in a row from 1981 to 1987.

I do believe there has only been one Porsche winner in the last 15 years and three times in the last 25 years or so. They do need to upgrade their lineup some. And during the time it was not "Family" owned, it did go downhill.

 

[Tommy Gun]

I do believe there has only been one Porsche winner in the last 15 years and three times in the last 25 years or so. They do need to upgrade their lineup some. And during the time it was not "Family" owned, it did go downhill.

Porsche won in 1996,97 and 98; eight out of the last ten were Audi wins. Porsche Engineering Group has for many years offered consultancy services to various other car manufacturers, including Audi.

 

[RLJ676]

Congratuations; ignorance is bliss. Porsche races and wins endurance races. Their racing record speaks for itself. Domestic vehicle service intervals (including oil changes) on a Cayenne for example are 20,000 miles. I have 92,000 miles on my 2006S; replaced a water pump; beyond that never been in service other than scheduled maintenance. AWD is a beast in the snow and it has a 6,000lb towing capacity; all while handling like a sports car.

24 hours Le Mans: By far the most successful marque in the history of the race is Porsche, who have taken 16 overall victories, including seven in a row from 1981 to 1987.

24 Hours Daytona: Porsche has the most overall victories of any manufacturer with 21, scored by various models, including the road based 911, 935 and 996. Porsche also won a record 11 consecutive races from 1977-1987 and won 18 out of 23 races from 1968-1991.

Why does this matter? "No one feels as committed to motor sport as Porsche. We build racing cars and are involved in racing and motor sport not just for image reasons, but because of the technical challenge it presents, so that we can learn from it for our series produced vehicles. Nearly every Porsche series model started life as a racing car."

Wait, are we talking race cars?

I'm not, and I'd hope you're not by mentioning the CAYENNE. Seriously, that thing is the least Porsche vehicle out there. They make great cars, but charge a fortune. Their top car is outperformed by the Cayman, even with less power. Rear engine is not a good configuration.

Here's from the latest C&D Lightening Lap results. Same drivers in the same conditions.....better than random 'berg ring times.

911 Carrera S ($108K) 3:05.8
Cayman S ($76K) 3:05.8
M3 ($69K) 3:05.4
Vette Grand Sport ($57K) 2:58.8
Vette ZR1 ($119) 2:51.8

Yeah, you're right, Porsche isn't ripping you off for their alleged sports cars.

You're driving a Cayenne though.....so I guess it is pretty sporty for taking kids to soccer, but I'd take an M5 over it.

 

[Tommy Gun]

Wait, are we talking race cars?

I'm not, and I'd hope you're not by mentioning the CAYENNE. Seriously, that thing is the least Porsche vehicle out there. They make great cars, but charge a fortune. Their top car is outperformed by the Cayman, even with less power. Rear engine is not a good configuration.

Here's from the latest C&D Lightening Lap results. Same drivers in the same conditions.....better than random 'berg ring times.

911 Carrera S ($108K) 3:05.8
Cayman S ($76K) 3:05.8
M3 ($69K) 3:05.4
Vette Grand Sport ($57K) 2:58.8
Vette ZR1 ($119) 2:51.8

Yeah, you're right, Porsche isn't ripping you off for their alleged sports cars.

You're driving a Cayenne though.....so I guess it is pretty sporty for taking kids to soccer, but I'd take an M5 over it.

Since I haven't seen the article I don't know what track it was run on but typically those with long straightaways will benefit the larger HP cars. For example you are comparing the GS Vette 436 HP and the ZR1 Vette 620HP against a Cayman S w/320HP and a Carrera S w/385 HP. Perhaps if they'd tested the GT w/612HP the results might be a bit different.

My point regarding Porsche was that they have an endurance racing heritage and are not as exotic or maintnenance intensive as one might be lead to believe; Regarding the Cayenne The Times journalist Andrew Frankel says on one level, it is the world's best 4x4...Despite the controversy faced by critics, the Cayenne has been a success. As of August 2009, well over 250,000 Cayennes have been built.

Then again that Chevy equinox sure is a winner

 

[RLJ676]

Since I haven't seen the article I don't know what track it was run on but typically those with long straightaways will benefit the larger HP cars. For example you are comparing the GS Vette 436 HP and the ZR1 Vette 620HP against a Cayman S w/320HP and a Carrera S w/385 HP. Perhaps if they'd tested the GT w/612HP the results might be a bit different.

My point regarding Porsche was that they have an endurance racing heritage and are not as exotic or maintnenance intensive as one might be lead to believe; Regarding the Cayenne The Times journalist Andrew Frankel says on one level, it is the world's best 4x4...Despite the controversy faced by critics, the Cayenne has been a success. As of August 2009, well over 250,000 Cayennes have been built.

Then again that Chevy equinox sure is a winner

It's ran at VIR. As you saw the lower powered Cayman ran the exact same as the more powerful 911, so it's not a straights issue. Rear engine makes little sense.

How much is that GT? It still won't beat the ZR1. My point was Porsche's are overpriced, which you are helping by pointing out how much less power you get for more money. Vette maintenance won't exactly break the bank, particularly compared to these cars. Porsche makes great cars, just overpriced and in the case of the 911, overhyped.

The Cayenne has sold to lots of wealthy image conscious people because of the brand. It is a very capable vehicle, I just don't think that's why it's been a success. Works for Porsche as it funds all the other projects. The Panamera I'm sure is due to it, and I like that car.

So I stand by my first point, Porsche's are overpriced and the "real Porsche" (911) is of poor layout and likely to put you ass first quicker than any car I can think, other than an overpowered Shelby replica maybe. The new ones with lots of electronic nannies does well, but those old ones.....

Equinox is a darn nice little CUV. Wish we could build more, as they're flying off the lots.

 

[sledge]

likely to put you ass first quicker than any car I can think

Until you've backed one into the gravel pit yourself, that's just regurgitating what critics have written. And lemme tell you, I've backed in my share of race cars. :driving: You just can't trail the pre-996 chassis into corners. C4-earlier chassis aren't going to appreciate it either. The 996 got new geometry to help with corner entry so the problem isn't as prevalent. But each car is different and demands a different style to push it to the limits. What hurts the 911 these days is the weight it's put on.

Bring EUR/USD back to parity and the 911 may be very price competitive.

 

[JupiterSunsation]

Until you've backed one into the gravel pit yourself, that's just regurgitating what critics have written. And lemme tell you, I've backed in my share of race cars. :driving: You just can't trail the pre-996 chassis into corners. C4-earlier chassis aren't going to appreciate it either. The 996 got new geometry to help with corner entry so the problem isn't as prevalent. But each car is different and demands a different style to push it to the limits. What hurts the 911 these days is the weight it's put on.

Bring EUR/USD back to parity and the 911 may be very price competitive.

trailing throttle oversteer at its best!

 

[JupiterSunsation]

RJ

There are plenty of "Vettes" that are in salvage yards nationwide when "Rocco" had the 4 hundred truurty horsepowa get away from him........

GM makes nice Cadillacs, great trucks, decent "full size" SUV's and great bang for the buck Corvettes......but go look at a 30 year old 911 and compare it to a 30 year old "Vette" and you will understand why Porsche charges a few bucks more......

 

[JupiterSunsation]

Wait, are we talking race cars?

I'm not, and I'd hope you're not by mentioning the CAYENNE. Seriously, that thing is the least Porsche vehicle out there. They make great cars, but charge a fortune. Their top car is outperformed by the Cayman, even with less power. Rear engine is not a good configuration.

Here's from the latest C&D Lightening Lap results. Same drivers in the same conditions.....better than random 'berg ring times.

911 Carrera S ($108K) 3:05.8
Cayman S ($76K) 3:05.8
M3 ($69K) 3:05.4
Vette Grand Sport ($57K) 2:58.8
Vette ZR1 ($119) 2:51.8

Yeah, you're right, Porsche isn't ripping you off for their alleged sports cars.

You're driving a Cayenne though.....so I guess it is pretty sporty for taking kids to soccer, but I'd take an M5 over it.

Notice they aren't running a base Corvette in those tests either.....where is the 911 GT2, GT3 or Twin Turbo if this is a run the best of the best grouping.

 

[RLJ676]

Notice they aren't running a base Corvette in those tests either.....where is the 911 GT2, GT3 or Twin Turbo if this is a run the best of the best grouping.

Sure, they'll be closer, but TWICE the cost.

My point is they're overpriced, not bad cars. I like the Cayman a lot, but it's expensive. The Euro doesn't help, but where they really kill you is the options. I don't think if the Euro devalued they'd charge less. People are willing to pay the big bucks, but they don't sell a lot and don't need to at their margins.

I'd take an M3 over these Porsches too. Why not have a back seat for similar/better performance and the same or less money?

 

[RLJ676]

RJ

There are plenty of "Vettes" that are in salvage yards nationwide when "Rocco" had the 4 hundred truurty horsepowa get away from him........

GM makes nice Cadillacs, great trucks, decent "full size" SUV's and great bang for the buck Corvettes......but go look at a 30 year old 911 and compare it to a 30 year old "Vette" and you will understand why Porsche charges a few bucks more......

Check a 40+ year old vette.:sifone:

 

[Tommy Gun]

It's ran at VIR. As you saw the lower powered Cayman ran the exact same as the more powerful 911, so it's not a straights issue. Rear engine makes little sense.

How much is that GT? It still won't beat the ZR1.

Really, how do you know this? No doubt the ZR1 is impressive and perhaps it would win but comparitively the numbers are vey close. The 620 HP ZR1 is 5.4 lbs/HP; 638 HP is 5.5 lbs/HP whereas the GT is 5.02lbs/HP. The top speeds are virtually identical so I think it would be interesting to run them side by side.

My point was Porsche's are overpriced, which you are helping by pointing out how much less power you get for more money.

No doubt the Corvette is a good value for the money, but I never have been impressed due to the poor quality of the fit and finish. Perhaps the newer ones are better.

Vette maintenance won't exactly break the bank, particularly compared to these cars.

Really, what is your point of comparision on the maintenance? My 911 maint interval is 15k miles; the Cayenne is 20k miles...what is a ZR1?

Porsche makes great cars, just overpriced and in the case of the 911, overhyped.

Your certainley entitled to your opinion but I think its racing heritage proves otherwise.

The Cayenne has sold to lots of wealthy image conscious people because of the brand.

Unlike say a Cadillac Escalade?

So I stand by my first point, Porsche's are overpriced and the "real Porsche" (911) is of poor layout and likely to put you ass first quicker than any car I can think, other than an overpowered Shelby replica maybe. The new ones with lots of electronic nannies does well, but those old ones.....

So when was the last time you actually drove one?

Equinox is a darn nice little CUV. Wish we could build more, as they're flying off the lots.

Congrats...the 2010's are getting good reviews however the older models...not so good.

 

[RLJ676]

I get it now....you like paying for racing heritage rather than current performance. Should have been obvious from your Cig!:sifone: (joking, as your boat is the dream boat:cheers2

I believe the GT and ZR1 have both ran the Nurbergring, and the ZR1 faster. Doesn't mean much though on different days and different drivers. I certainly would love to drive either or see them go flat out to see. Now combine cost and livability (if you are doing more than track toy)....

Again, I like Porsche. Great cars but I don't like a rear engine design and you can get more for your money in other places (not just a vette). Again, I'm talking sports cars, not race cars. A flat out track ready car is different than a sports car for the street. I'm not huge on it and could be wrong, but haven't vette's recently dominated the AMLS, etc? Are they in a different class than the 911?

Last time I drove one was my uncle's 07 911 about 3 years ago. Didn't get to get on it in any curves to get a handling impression. Quick car....but the sound isn't right. I'm just a V8 guy I guess.

I thought everyone knew Escalade's only sold because of rappers.:sifone:

 

[JupiterSunsation]

RLJ........that Caddy CTS with the Vette motor is ugly but really fast!

The M3's have gotten WAY WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. I have had two and my last one was an 02 convertible (333 HP, 57K new). Same car now is a V8/400+ HP and 75K....

 

[RLJ676]

RLJ........that Caddy CTS with the Vette motor is ugly but really fast!

The M3's have gotten WAY WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. I have had two and my last one was an 02 convertible (333 HP, 57K new). Same car now is a V8/400+ HP and 75K....

I have tried not to be too GM and bring that one up.....but yeah. Only I don't find it at all ugly.....:willy_nilly:

I'm headed over to watch the games with some buddies, one just bought a CTS-V, and he owes letting me take it for a quick spin.:driving:

I think the M3's start in the 50's or low 60's, but options get real pricey real fast. They are great cars though.

 

[Tommy Gun]

From C&D's review of the ZR1...

The ZR1’s steering still doesn’t have the leanness or data-bit flow of a Porsche 911’s, but placing and holding the nose where it’s needed is easier and takes less guesswork and prayer.

Different strokes for different folks...that's why there are so many cars to choose from. Regardless, I'm not good enough to drive those cars at that level and personally think real high end cars to be a waste because unless you get on a track you can't legally drive them like they want to be driven. I'm real content with my 1997 911S, not the fastest but a blast to drive; and it hasn't lost much of it's value over the years and is a classic; the last of the 993 air cooled cars.

That is why I think performance boats are more fun...you can run at speed without the added worry of LE most of the time.

 

[phragle]

Check a 40+ year old vette.:sifone:

Like the one in the garage, wth matching numbers, not to mention the engine, trans and rear end have NEVER been opened up or gone into......

 

[MarylandMark]

that Caddy CTS with the Vette motor is ugly but really fast!

:ack2: I think it is bad ass!

 

[Tommy Gun]

Lip-Ship has one...its pretty cool; and very fast.