apache 3a vs 5

[Tres]

Does anyone have experience what i can expect when i switch out my 3's to 5's on my 41' apache. (ie. handling, speed), I probably would need spacers. thanks
Dr. G

done it many times, depends what your trying to accomplish, and bottom Mods are required. either set will work, 3s or 5s. Just set up different. Higher drive will result in faster speed if you adjust the bottom, but will lack the accell. Problem is with the 3 the prop selection is much more limited. You can adjust the bottom for either drive and gain results.

 

[Birdog]

done it many times, depends what your trying to accomplish, and bottom Mods are required. either set will work, 3s or 5s. Just set up different. Higher drive will result in faster speed if you adjust the bottom, but will lack the accell. Problem is with the 3 the prop selection is much more limited. You can adjust the bottom for either drive and gain results.

Well worth calling Tres, Doc...He will help you decide either way....
Congrats on buying my favorite Apache !...Cant wait to see her racing

Listen to guys like MM & Tres..Ignore the 2 class clowns.....

 

[underpressure]

Everybody is kinda overlooking parts for the 3 and 5 drives supposedly is getting a little scarce. I have 5's on my staggered gun and was told by all you could not remove spacers but like Mark said it was done many moons ago with a different generation of props. I took out almost 3" and the boat ran exactly the same. And that is on 5's to 5's. Right now I am running 4 blades but more geared for cruise. Mine is heavy though, about 14,500 with fuel so that may be different. Bottom line no one will have an answer, just opinions and past experiences to go by. Even the 41 Apaches had many wieghts and layouts. Still to this day the most incredible go-fast I have ever ridden, bar none, from the light Predator to Mikey's Jester.

On Predator we went from 5 drives to 6's and the handling, trim and raceability was completely different and better.

Cool pics Mark, hope you had a great Christmas.

Carl

 

[underpressure]

Oops., just read you bought Magnums boat, wow, never thought he was serious about selling. What an awesome piece, congrats.

We raced Predator, or the Rabbit as Bobby says, another light 41. It weighed 10,000 with fuel at the Marathon race. We never thought it would run good in the rough being light but amazingly it ran like a raped ape and was a terror in flat too. Holy crap could that boat turn. When we had sixes and the Bigger Chiefs it went over 100 pretty easy. Its still classified though.

 

[DrGaryDC]

I appreciate it, thank you
Dr. G

 

[underpressure]

The Predator boat with 850ish motors ran in the mid 90's with the number 5 drives. It also had the old style tie bar for the drives mounted to the ears of the drive. Made you think a little when we pushed really hard into the turns.

When we put the sixes on we also bumped power to 1140 or so. Like Mark referenced it was a little hairy when it got close to 115, might say out of control or such. Crazy acceleration, but the winning while racing was a combination of a driver who knew how far to push the turn (and the nuts to actually do it) and a throttle guy working the tabs and drives to maintain the spped as close to the class rules in the turns and straightaways as possible. It is less about acceleration in the speed classes as it is staying right at the number. If you try to catch up you most likely break out.

Here are pictures of the Predator tie bar and mine the Marine Machine style

 

[underpressure]

Sorry I meant to say the steering was mounted to the ears, but you probably got my drift.

 

[DrGaryDC]

Thanks everyone for the great input into the question 3a's vs 5's. I think i have enough info here for my decisions in either experimenting with what i have to work with or just using it the way it is. Thank you all
Dr. Gary

 

[Magnum Mark]

Everybody is kinda overlooking parts for the 3 and 5 drives supposedly is getting a little scarce. I have 5's on my staggered gun and was told by all you could not remove spacers but like Mark said it was done many moons ago with a different generation of props. I took out almost 3" and the boat ran exactly the same. And that is on 5's to 5's. Right now I am running 4 blades but more geared for cruise. Mine is heavy though, about 14,500 with fuel so that may be different. Bottom line no one will have an answer, just opinions and past experiences to go by. Even the 41 Apaches had many wieghts and layouts. Still to this day the most incredible go-fast I have ever ridden, bar none, from the light Predator to Mikey's Jester.

On Predator we went from 5 drives to 6's and the handling, trim and raceability was completely different and better.

Cool pics Mark, hope you had a great Christmas.

Carl

happy holiday to you and yours carl.....mark..

 

[10x]

SO AM I !!!!!

But Frank, the #4 has the upper gears and lower gears from the #3 !

The #5 has bigger gears !!!!

On the propshaft u are correct , thats what i said aswell, I HAVE A #4 Bigshaft.

Also the housing is slightly different in the inside to make room for the bigger gears, the lower is even on the outside thats why the #4 has a little less drag !!!!!!

Please Frank,,,look it up and /or trusst me.

How many parts do u need for a #3,4 or 5 , if i don't hve them i can get them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STILL, maybe not for an other 5 years but now !!!! LOL


The driveshaft hight diffrents = 6. 1/4 inches between a #3 ( 3A ) and a #4 ( 5 ) !!

So know u put the bokes on in - 1 , your 5.1/4 higher ( remember on this Apache it was 3/4 inches below ) So u are 4.5 inches above

U now add 3 inches ( which is the max in spacers u can go ) u are 1.5 above the hull ( TO HIGH , even with the notch )

Why i know ,,i tested this more then once on boats with a notch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:seeya:

Scott, thank you for the x-dimension here that you posted. Great info you got there. I will keep this info stored away. I remember having a Cig with 3A's sitting right next to my Fountain, so I measured the distance from the cavatation plate on each drive, to the prop shaft, and that's where I came up with the 4" difference. Never measured them from the yoke to the prop shaft. Now I don't have to. LOL :bump:

Hope everyone has a safe New Years.

 

[RMPRam]

Gary,

I have tried both combinations on my straight bottom 38 Cigarette flat deck. I currently have #3A's on the transom and the boat runs about 90-92 mph. I had Stelling's box's with #5's and the boat ran 100-102mph. I liked the box's and #5's but I wanted to sell the boat so I removed them and installed the #3A's. I have the box's, transmissions, fresh #5's etc. for sale, if you are interested.

Gary
763-473-8963

 

[Ratickle]

Gary,

I have tried both combinations on my straight bottom 38 Cigarette flat deck. I currently have #3A's on the transom and the boat runs about 90-92 mph. I had Stelling's box's with #5's and the boat ran 100-102mph. I liked the box's and #5's but I wanted to sell the boat so I removed them and installed the #3A's. I have the box's, transmissions, fresh #5's etc. for sale, if you are interested.

Gary
763-473-8963

What spacers did you end up running on the 5's? My step bottom Black Thunder has 3A's.

 

[DAREDEVIL]

wonder ,,really what the differents is/would be ?!!!!!

I see non hight advatage on these pics.

( the cig is side by side , so it makes sense )

On these pics from the 41 u can really see the hight on DOC's #3's compared to the low X on the other 41 with the boxes. Prop hight is the same .

 

[Chris]

I've seen a half-inch make a difference with the right props on the 41. And I can't see a half-inch difference standing next to the boat without measuring.

 

[RMPRam]

I tried 1", 2" and then stacked them for 3" (the vertical drive shaft has enough spline contact for 3" of spacers). I used 17.5x31 4bbl's, 18x32 4bbl's and the 18x32 worked the best. I have spacers available.

 

[Ratickle]

I tried 1", 2" and then stacked them for 3" (the vertical drive shaft has enough spline contact for 3" of spacers). I used 17.5x31 4bbl's, 18x32 4bbl's and the 18x32 worked the best. I have spacers available.

Any chance at all you remember the numbers of all that testing with drives, spacers, and props?

 

[underpressure]

Same to you Mark, hope to see you again soon.

 

[underpressure]

The "other 41" with the boxes is a staggered 38 Top Gun. They are all shot at different angles with different trim too, so it is next to impossible to tell anything other than they are all really nice boats, and I agree with Chris on eyeballing a half inch. It is even tough then especially with boxes.

 

[Sean Stinson]

Look I am pretty sure I am qualified enough to chime in here as well.....As far as the difference in the 3A and 5 it is pretty much the length of the vertical shaft the 5 being the shorter of the two....so it becomes a matter of set-up like Tres mentioned....the best thing to do if you have everything available is to try each and every set-up and see which one works better make sure and keep a record and only change one thing at a time so you can keep a good baseline.....in the Docs new boat it is light so you don't need a whole bunch of bite tocarry the front end which will help the 5 work out fairly well from the start but again you need to start with a good baseline and see what works trust me when I say evryone is different and likes different things......they are like strippers who each have their own agenda!!!!!!

 

[DrGaryDC]

I thought every stripper i met liked me, lol