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Anyone taking odds on the auto industry bail-out?

Let them file chapter 11 and restructure .................. i am so tired of auto workers makeing more $$$$ money then people who have collage degrees for just twisting two nuts , give me a break . I also would like to say that i do not give a $hit if thay are bored , because they work on a assembly line but .......................... why do we send are son's and daughter's to collage to have a STUPID auto worker with no degree who twists two nuts together make more then the people who have a collage education , go figure .
 
Detroit Free Press Exposes Six Myths About Domestic Automakers
The November 17, 2008, issue of the Detroit Free Press ran an interesting article about six domestic automaker myths that linger in the minds of consumers:

“The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by everyone from members of Congress to journalists. Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the reality in each case.

Myth 1: Nobody buys their vehicles.
Reality:

General Motors, Ford and Chrysler sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world.
GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 650,000 so far this year.
Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world’s largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.
Myth 2: They build unreliable junk.
Reality:

The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and ’90s are long gone. The independent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands’ overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.
Myth 3: They build gas-guzzlers.
Reality:

All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway.
The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 mpg on the highway, 2 mpg better than the best Honda Accord.
The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic.
Myth 4: They already got a $25-billion bailout.
Reality:

None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that’s killing them now.
Myth 5: GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.
Reality:

The domestic companies’ lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry.
The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan’s full-size pickups.
Myth 6: They don’t build hybrids.
Reality:

The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.
 
RLJ676 said:
You realize their is a HUGE difference between the Volt, an all electric propeled vehicle (with gas generator to keep battery charged when necessary), and the Prius which is a simpler hybrid. Oh, and Ford, GM and Chrysler have hybrids that function just like the prius, they are just less ugly.

Further, if our gov't had paid R&D for a hybrid as Japan did for Toyota, it'd been out then too. Even though the Prius is still sold for a loss generally, so it really isn't anything but a PR car.

This goes to my point, everyone is sitting here saying know to a LOAN while they have absolutely no clue as to the facts. Learn something before making up your mind based on crap stated by ignorant pundits/congrassman and just repeating incorrect myths that have been around for years.

Check here, everything is true and verifyable. www.gmfactsandfiction.com
Click to expand...

I do realize the difference in the two cars. I should have used a diff comparison for the point I was trying to make.

Chrysler PT Cruiser 2000, huge success - Chevy HHR 2006, not so much

2005 Ford Mustang, success - Dodge Challenger 2008, in demand - Chevy Camaro - 2010 maybe, should be successful just because of the heritage

Hybrids, Since you have all the answers, when did GM release theirs?
1997 - Toyota, Audi
1999 Honda
2004 Ford
There are a bunch out there now, but how many from the big 3?

I'm not pushing imports, 2 Fords and a GMC in my driveway, BBCs in the boat, just looking at things and wondering why the American auto industry is where it is today. Not singling out GM, but they are the biggest of the 3 and from that, one could infer that they should have offerings at the forefront of technology before everyone else.
 
inbetween said:
I do realize the difference in the two cars. I should have used a diff comparison for the point I was trying to make.

Chrysler PT Cruiser 2000, huge success - Chevy HHR 2006, not so much

2005 Ford Mustang, success - Dodge Challenger 2008, in demand - Chevy Camaro - 2010 maybe, should be successful just because of the heritage

Hybrids, Since you have all the answers, when did GM release theirs?
1997 - Toyota, Audi
1999 Honda
2004 Ford
There are a bunch out there now, but how many from the big 3?

I'm not pushing imports, 2 Fords and a GMC in my driveway, BBCs in the boat, just looking at things and wondering why the American auto industry is where it is today. Not singling out GM, but they are the biggest of the 3 and from that, one could infer that they should have offerings at the forefront of technology before everyone else.
Click to expand...


What he said :sifone: This was my point as well when i said they have been behind the times. It was just to little to late
 
When I was looking for my Escape Hybrid you could not find them any place. I had to get a used one. The demand for them was HUGE but Ford could not get batteries or some such nonsense. They have a winner in this car and they can not make them. Now with the cost of fuel down so much lower the demand for them is going to drop big time.

If the Volt comes out at 40K then it will no fly unless the performance numbers are off the charts. If they came out with it last year maybe but not now.
 
catmando said:
Don't worry, oil will go back up. I think it's going to take $5/gal to convince people that buying gas guzzlers is a bad decision. Unfortunately $5 gas will impact boating very negatively but that's the price of change.
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That can't happen, Bush and Cheny are out of office and Obamas in:)
 
catmando said:
Don't worry, oil will go back up. I think it's going to take $5/gal to convince people that buying gas guzzlers is a bad decision. Unfortunately $5 gas will impact boating very negatively but that's the price of change.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that part of your guys promis of change is 5$ a gallon gas? I bet a lot of people would not have voted for him knowing that :dupe::dupe:
 
Audiofn said:
When I was looking for my Escape Hybrid you could not find them any place. I had to get a used one. The demand for them was HUGE but Ford could not get batteries or some such nonsense. They have a winner in this car and they can not make them. Now with the cost of fuel down so much lower the demand for them is going to drop big time.

If the Volt comes out at 40K then it will no fly unless the performance numbers are off the charts. If they came out with it last year maybe but not now.
Click to expand...

the volt isn't going to do it, what would do it is a 7~10k 40mpg metro with updated styling and a nice stereo that could be affordable to a kid working at Mc Donaldsn and make it look cool enough that a kid working at mcdonalds would actually want it and not be afraid to be seen driving it.

not counting burger king, wendy's and walmart employee's just mcdonlalds that little car would have at least 20 times the market share than the volt
 
BUIZILLA said:
who the hell wants an electric car?? :ack2:

what's next electric boats ?? that's a shocker..
Click to expand...

I'd buy one in a second if they made the one I want. Personally I like what Tesla is doing but don't know if the cars meet the published claims. Additionally I'm not spending north of $100k on one. They were talking about a sedan in the $60K range (I'd like to see that number substantially lower) and I'd be interested in that providing it had similar performance as their claiming for the roadster.
 
well ford is coming out with the SVT F150 raptor, a high end big bucks pickup, granted it's a really sweet truck, but is this really a truck market?????????
 
Playn said:
I'd buy one in a second if they made the one I want. Personally I like what Tesla is doing but don't know if the cars meet the published claims. Additionally I'm not spending north of $100k on one. They were talking about a sedan in the $60K range (I'd like to see that number substantially lower) and I'd be interested in that providing it had similar performance as their claiming for the roadster.
Click to expand...

We'd all be electrocuted the first weekend out if we had electric boats!!!!!!!!!!!
 
phragle said:
the volt isn't going to do it, what would do it is a 7~10k 40mpg metro with updated styling and a nice stereo that could be affordable to a kid working at Mc Donaldsn and make it look cool enough that a kid working at mcdonalds would actually want it and not be afraid to be seen driving it.

not counting burger king, wendy's and walmart employee's just mcdonlalds that little car would have at least 20 times the market share than the volt
Click to expand...

The Volt is NOT meant to be a volume seller (the volume the first few years will be LOW), it is meant to show off the best tech, but still won't be "profitable". It is a pure electric car, with a generator to charge the battery. It isn't like hybrid as we know them.

However, the Cruze, which replaces the Cobalt and will get over 40, and be priced in the teens, IS going to be a volume seller. This car will be just as important as the Volt. It will actually sell in volume, while the Volt gives PR (just as the Prius has greenwashed many into thinking Toyota is the green mfg).
 
hopefully the cruze will be more than a reskinned cavalier/cobalt, as for the volt, when your hemmoraghing dollars, why embark on non-profitable ventures and showing off?? research is one thing, but dont put your unfinished research projects into production.
 
RLJ676 said:
The Volt is NOT meant to be a volume seller (the volume the first few years will be LOW), it is meant to show off the best tech, but still won't be "profitable". It is a pure electric car, with a generator to charge the battery. It isn't like hybrid as we know them.

However, the Cruze, which replaces the Cobalt and will get over 40, and be priced in the teens, IS going to be a volume seller. This car will be just as important as the Volt. It will actually sell in volume, while the Volt gives PR (just as the Prius has greenwashed many into thinking Toyota is the green mfg).
Click to expand...

Just as clearly as the use of private jets to DC to plead their case for a bail-out is the same example being set by the Volt, per your information.

NOT MEANT TO BE A VOLUME SELLER?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That actually has me laughing. And, it should have you laughing too, but I'm starting to wonder if everyone in detroit or involved with the industry is blinded and buying their own BS.

"Let's see..... instead of building a product we can sell and make a PROFIT on, we'll showcase our commitment to technology and being green. I mean, the Fed will bail us out". :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Detroit and anyone who takes their side needs to go back and start at community college in Business 101
 
a close friend of mine owns 3 GM/Ford stores in middle TN, I hope he makes it, he is the epitome of the family style long term lifer, awesome sales and service store. stores like this NEED to survive, the big conglomerate stores are what ruined the perfect sales/service relationship we all crave. Autonation proves just what is all wrong with the auto sales industry...
 
A UAW worker makes 73.26/hour. $39.68 base wages with $33.58 in benefits. Unreal.

I say let the Big Three sink. These bloated wages are gonna put the Big Three under. And maybe thats exactly what they need.

Time to restructure and ditch the unions.
 
MacGyver said:
A UAW worker makes 73.26/hour. $39.68 base wages with $33.58 in benefits. Unreal.
Click to expand...

That includes legacy cost.

Everyone's always trying to take from the man that has to take take shower after work than before work...

UAW announced today they are willing to make more cuts (union lesson learned from Eastern Air maybe).

UAW workers made several concessions in their latest contract, including the implementation of a two-tier wage system.

Under this system, current employees will keep their current compensation rates, but new workers will make significantly less in benefits and wages. These new workers will only cost their employers $47 an hour all-in, while non-assembly line workers will only cost $26 an hour.

In another concession, the UAW will take control of health-care benefits as of 2010, meaning the all-in cost of the workers who were hired before the two-tier system was implemented will fall to $62 an hour.

Given these changes, by 2012 the average all-in cost of a UAW employee will be approximately $52 an hour.

4 years dropping cost over $20/hour.
 
Destruction of the unions would actually save other lesser known companies BILLIONS of dollars. That would have a very postive effect on the economy. Cut cap gains and now we have the start of something good.

? is, would the unions dissolve if the 3 go away?
 
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