103 in an svl ?

[Ratickle]

I don't think it is possible for a racer to get in his boat with a laptop and reprogram the 525 ecm. It is my understanding that only Whipple has the access codes and is limited to the number of flashes he can perform. He has stated that in other threads.

If you are truely concerned about this simply put in an ecm claiming rule. What does an ecm cost $1000? You just let the inspector know once the boats are in the water and he can seal the hatch until after the race and give it to you. Claim it for a grand and in a worst case you have a spare or one to sell on ebay. No big deal.

Another possibility, the sealed hatch rule already exists.

 

[imco offshore]

you guys are ALL RIGHT ,,your not getting the point,,,THEIR NOT BEING FOLLOWED,,,,SOME FEEL ABOVE THE LAW..THAT HAS BEEN THE WHOLE POINT HERE,,,

SORRY RACER GUY,,,BUT THIS CLASS HAS SPENT THE LAST 6 YEARS HAVING FUN RACES,,AND NOW???? THE ORIGINAL 10 HAVE NOT CHANGED A THING,,,ALL WERE LOOKING FOR IS COOPERATION IN FAIR RACING,,,I AM SORRY,,

 

[Ratickle]

Steve, I've never sat in this boat and have no interest beyond hoping that this class doesn't completely tear itself apart because someone new came into the class. Mike A nailed it when he predicted this outcome the moment we heard of a new hull.

I called the Doc about the laptop issue. He said "Yes, I do take a laptop into the cockpit in order to download the SD card from the Garmin 5212. If I don't download the chip often, I'll loose data as it over writes the card".

I went through this same issue with OSS as the Cat Lite class continually insinuating that someone had hot boxes, so we bought new ones from Merc and handed them out randomly at the drivers meeting. This seemed to have solved the problem.

I'm interested in seeing a resolution to whatever problem is perceived. Nothing more. As a race producer I try my best to treat everyone equally, because I believe that racers will stop racing once they no longer feel they have a fair shot at winning a race. THIS IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE AVOIDED.

There are two issues that I see.
1. Is someone playing with ECMs?
2. Is the Fountain hull simply faster than the Phantom and Extreme Hulls?

Steve, my point is, while this thread is entertaining, it's pointless. I'd like to see someone take the lead and move toward a resolution that will fix the problem of a new boat being faster than older hulls and keeping an eye toward the future so that it doesn't happen again.

This thread is not pointless Ron, it is what is being discussed. It's time guys like you with input that may be helpful, step up and assist with that knowledge.

While I don't agree with Mike on the current status of the Fountain boat, I do agree that unless something is cemented rules wise, this class will go the way of the other classes that have been destroyed by only being able to compete if you have a lot of money or a factory backing with unlimited developement for new boats and tweaked equipment.

This boat appeared to meet all the rules at implementation. If it's the same as the 33 as stated, and the engine is as the rules stated, it is a legal hull. The driver may be an issue, and that Doc defends him is to be expected, but the boat is not a big issue I don't think.

It is a wake up call for those with knowledge and experience to assist with a stable, and growing, future. Be part of that assistance instead of taking sides one way or the other with the current equipment owners and team mates, please.......

 

[baldtires]

spec racing is all about setup, driving/throttling and fair racing. if somebody refused a tech inspection, they are hiding something. its that simple. i bet most of the svl racers would not have any problem with the other racers, inspectors climbing all over there boats to take a look.

 

[MANITIE]

Damm Doc....even when you follow the rules. (quote gino )

how can you follow rules ,,when their isn,t any ??? and don,t when their IS go figure??

George...Doc ran his boat in a class with a factory engine (525) per the rules...then some on here said he went and got his own class to win...but it was Octain that was in the wrong class...Doc ran his boat per the rules and won his class and Octain ran in a differant class and won....he did not get his own class....like some here said he did.....

As far as you saying he dose not follow the rules in your class....then do something about it..its your class...having a Kangaroo court on SOS is not the way...

Come to Atlantic City and race...let Smitty inspect all SVL's boats per the rules that were set in the beginning of the year...if you get DQ then so be it...that includes you the Fountain and the rest of the class....if a team refuses to get inspection then there DQ....

Simple....pointing fingures on here dose nothing...other then a lot of people making a lot of accusations agaist Doc....

If he is cheating...then race him and all get inspected ..if he dose not...then you will have proved your point...

As far as the St Clair race...we have heard some SVL teams say OPA did not inspect the Fountain and we heard the President say if he did inspect all the boats only 3 would have passed....

So prove them all wrong and go race and let OPA hold there inspections on all....

 

[Racerguymiami]

1) OSS P1 has no rules.
2) Everyone in the class is breaking the no rules.
3} If you race and win you are shunned.
4} Lack of sportsmanship.
5} Racers do not get along.
6} Any positive input is being ignored.

Really, it's gone from illegal hulls to modified bottoms and now to modified ECM's. This thread is like watching the 'Madhouse' series.

Moving forward. The speed of the Fountain and any new technology that may appear seems to be an issue. What are the options?

New rule to slow down the new technology? Not Likely. Speed up the older boats with an ECM mod. Likely. Take it to a vote.

Sealed ECM's. How hard can it be to seal the ECM plugs. Drill them and seal them. Have a tamper proof sleeve manufactured that fits over the ECM plugs and seal it.

Hull mods on older boats? Even though I suggested this in an earlier post I truly believe that it shouldn't be allowed at all. No hull mods unless proved to add safety to the occupants with no performance gain.

Each participating boats original mold should be measured and each participating boat should be measured. Templates should be made and boats checked at each race site during pre-race tech.

The tech team. These individulals need to have no ties to any of the racers, engine manufacturers/re-builders or boat manufacturers.

Adopt a set of existing rules that will do the class well and make adjustments. With that said, these are only suggestions. So who is going to start the process?

 

[Ron P]

All good thoughts but it will cost money to give that level of service to one class. Right now, OPA has held to thier NO ENTRY FEE marketing plan. Is this class willing to pay an entry fee in order to pay for some of these additional services?

Can we at least start by agreeing that 2 into 1 will never be legal in this class? George, you had me..

 

[MANITIE]

Well said Chris....

Looking forward to seeing the new boat....

And thanks again for helping out in Miami...

 

[Steve Miklos]

Tech

Tech is expensive for a sanctioning body. With no guarantee of who will show up when how can OPA or SBI have inspectors and tools at each race site in case we do? To tech 5 SVL's pre and post at the level needed would take 2 good guys with skills. Bob Owen has done it before and knows how time consuming it can be.

The working conditions are less than good and the racers are not always courteous or cooperative. The cost to have tech would be about $3K per race for the sanctioning body. The more rules the more tech that is needed.

At this time we (Svl racers) need to handle the tech ourselves as much as possible and be happy OPA and SBI give us a place to race.
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

1) OSS P1 has no rules.
2) Everyone in the class is breaking the no rules.
3} If you race and win you are shunned.
4} Lack of sportsmanship.
5} Racers do not get along.
6} Any positive input is being ignored.

Really, it's gone from illegal hulls to modified bottoms and now to modified ECM's. This thread is like watching the 'Madhouse' series.

Moving forward. The speed of the Fountain and any new technology that may appear seems to be an issue. What are the options?

New rule to slow down the new technology? Not Likely. Speed up the older boats with an ECM mod. Likely. Take it to a vote.

Sealed ECM's. How hard can it be to seal the ECM plugs. Drill them and seal them. Have a tamper proof sleeve manufactured that fits over the ECM plugs and seal it.

Hull mods on older boats? Even though I suggested this in an earlier post I truly believe that it shouldn't be allowed at all. No hull mods unless proved to add safety to the occupants with no performance gain.

Each participating boats original mold should be measured and each participating boat should be measured. Templates should be made and boats checked at each race site during pre-race tech.

The tech team. These individulals need to have no ties to any of the racers, engine manufacturers/re-builders or boat manufacturers.

Adopt a set of existing rules that will do the class well and make adjustments. With that said, these are only suggestions. So who is going to start the process?

Nobody will. It cost too much per race and the rate of return is less than zero for the sanctioning body. If the Strain gages and associated peripherals needed to operate in the US were not a tall tale you would half of this, but you dont.
Steve

 

[Slandrew]

1) OSS P1 has no rules.
2) Everyone in the class is breaking the no rules.
3} If you race and win you are shunned.
4} Lack of sportsmanship.
5} Racers do not get along.
6} Any positive input is being ignored.

Really, it's gone from illegal hulls to modified bottoms and now to modified ECM's. This thread is like watching the 'Madhouse' series.

Moving forward. The speed of the Fountain and any new technology that may appear seems to be an issue. What are the options?

New rule to slow down the new technology? Not Likely. Speed up the older boats with an ECM mod. Likely. Take it to a vote.

Sealed ECM's. How hard can it be to seal the ECM plugs. Drill them and seal them. Have a tamper proof sleeve manufactured that fits over the ECM plugs and seal it.

Hull mods on older boats? Even though I suggested this in an earlier post I truly believe that it shouldn't be allowed at all. No hull mods unless proved to add safety to the occupants with no performance gain.

Each participating boats original mold should be measured and each participating boat should be measured. Templates should be made and boats checked at each race site during pre-race tech.

The tech team. These individulals need to have no ties to any of the racers, engine manufacturers/re-builders or boat manufacturers.

Adopt a set of existing rules that will do the class well and make adjustments. With that said, these are only suggestions. So who is going to start the process?

A good camera pictures of all sealed units or what ever before&after race props included!Camera dont lie:leaving:

 

[Steve Miklos]

A good camera pictures of all sealed units or what ever before&after race props included!Camera dont lie:leaving:

How would that help? The picture will not tell you what's in the ECM.
Steve

 

[MANITIE]

Steve if it would cost around 3k a race for tech
Charge each SVL team $350 for a entry fee....

Personally....I don't see why OPA should have to pay anything for tech becasue the SVL Class that may show up to 2 or 3 events a year...

First of all....do you not agree that if a Class request that it has to have a tech team and the Org has to pay for it....that the least the class should have to do is make all the Orgs races....and if they are not going to make all the races...have them pay a entre fee to pay for the tech they request like Ron said..


Or like you said tech your own class...and leave the Org out of it.....that seems the easiest way....this way you can boot out any team that dose not comply...and there done...

I think it will be interesting to see if by the beginning of next racing season if there will be 3+ new SVL Fountains....or just the one...

Mike A.....I don't know how you did it back in your days with APBA LLC...
What... you had 8 to 10 spec classes and a total of round 70+ spec boats racing and there was no were near the problems we see today in just one class alone....

 

[Mike A.]

This boat appeared to meet all the rules at implementation. If it's the same as the 33 as stated, and the engine is as the rules stated, it is a legal hull. The driver may be an issue, and that Doc defends him is to be expected, but the boat is not a big issue I don't think.

It is a wake up call for those with knowledge and experience to assist with a stable, and growing, future. Be part of that assistance instead of taking sides one way or the other with the current equipment owners and team mates, please.......

I am not sure this matters but in case anyone is interested there is no way the Fountain would have been legal under the 2003 APBA Offshore LLC SVL rules.

 

[Mike A.]

Mike A.....I don't know how you did it back in your days with APBA LLC...
What... you had 8 to 10 spec classes and a total of round 70+ spec boats racing and there was no were near the problems we see today in just one class alone....

Well, one thing was that we did not let the inmates run the asylum. But that did not work ultimately because the inmates broke out and built their own asylum and then trashed everything; hence what we have today.

So, if you guys really want to go back to having fun and enjoying close competition with sportsmanship and comraderie then just create the SVL Classic or Vintage class and be done with it. I guarantee you the controversies will go away and those guys will go back to having fun.

If there is a demand out there for a new technology class then let P1 or some other group build it. But if the only way someone will build a new boat is if they can be guaranteed a certain number of "victims" i.e. older boats, then the new class does not really have any merit.

 

[mdkeywest]

So, if you guys really want to go back to having fun and enjoying close competition with sportsmanship and comraderie then just create the SVL Classic or Vintage class and be done with it. I guarantee you the controversies will go away and those guys will go back to having fun.

If there is a demand out there for a new technology class then let P1 or some other group build it. But if the only way someone will build a new boat is if they can be guaranteed a certain number of "victims" i.e. older boats, then the new class does not really have any merit.

This is the best solution i've read .
( Actually I think I read this " BEFORE " the new technology splashed in biloxi )
Ron,s idea to let opa build some rules would help as well .

 

[MANITIE]

Well, one thing was that we did not let the inmates run the asylum. But that did not work ultimately because the inmates broke out and built their own asylum and then trashed everything; hence what we have today..

I agree 100% there....

 

[SVL 4-Watch Your Back]

Ron ,,talking about not understanding ,,,,I DON,T UNDERSTAND WHY A GUY NEEDS TO CARRY A LAPTOP INTO HIS BOSSES RACE BOAT AT THE RACES ,,WITH A STOCK 525 ??
ANY GUESS ,,,Maybe he is adjusting the bilge pump timer thing,??

DO THEY HONESTLY THINK THIS CLASS IS SLEEPING ,,,!!!!

=========

George,

This is not the first time you are accusing us of cheating ! ......
The better question is : why would anyone in 2010 manipulate engine data from the cockpit of their boat with their personal laptops, when everyone has access to the latest NASA-T.G. Special Project software for SVL's with sealed mercury motors?

This Syncromatics-Telemetry technology allows remote measurements, reporting of information, manipulation of performance and fine tuning of race boats while running. The engine-drive data can be manipulated from terrestrial radio and satellites access from anywhere in the universe. It is an advanced technology to allow your technicians (thousands of miles away from a race site) to maximize the engine performance with a "W Phonewatch" ( http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/02/26/dialing-into-the-future-from-my-wrist.html ). This Phonewatch also allows you to check you email, send picture messages and find directions to your favorite Italian restaurant, all at 3G speeds!

FYI; we also use the "Fleetmatics Tracking System", in all our boats.

We assume you are taking advantage of this advanced technology in your SVL, and therefore the need to take your laptop to your cockpit becomes irrelevant.

Cheers

 

[heater63]

Does OPA have techs for the cat-lite or the cat outboards? maybe they could tech for the SVLs

 

[mdkeywest]

=========

George,

This is not the first time you are accusing us of cheating ! ......
The better question is : why would anyone in 2010 manipulate engine data from the cockpit of their boat with their personal laptops, when everyone has access to the latest NASA-T.G. Special Project software for SVL's with sealed mercury motors?

This Syncromatics-Telemetry technology allows remote measurements, reporting of information, manipulation of performance and fine tuning of race boats while running. The engine-drive data can be manipulated from terrestrial radio and satellites access from anywhere in the universe. It is an advanced technology to allow your technicians (thousands of miles away from a race site) to maximize the engine performance with a "W Phonewatch" ( http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/02/26/dialing-into-the-future-from-my-wrist.html ). This Phonewatch also allows you to check you email, send picture messages and find directions to your favorite Italian restaurant, all at 3G speeds!

FYI; we also use the "Fleetmatics Tracking System", in all our boats.

We assume you are taking advantage of this advanced technology in your SVL, and therefore the need to take your laptop to your cockpit becomes irrelevant.

Cheers

Is This is a band aid hiding a suture ?