103 in an svl ?

[Steve Miklos]

Rules and laws have much in common.

Laws without enforcement is advantage crooks, they get rich while we try and make a living. In racing rules without enforcement is advantage cheaters, they win while we kill ourselves trying to keep up.

If you cannot have enforcement relax the rules so the honest guys have an honest chance.

This is not a slam on any sanctioning body. The reality is rules enforcement is difficult and expensive. If we cannot afford a good enforcement program at the SVL events than I would recommend relaxing the rules to a maximum throttle body size and RPM limit.

Steve

 

[Ratickle]

Rules and laws have much in common.

Laws without enforcement is advantage crooks, they get rich while we try and make a living. In racing rules without enforcement is advantage cheaters, they win while we kill ourselves trying to keep up.

If you cannot have enforcement relax the rules so the honest guys have an honest chance.

This is not a slam on any sanctioning body. The reality is rules enforcement is difficult and expensive. If we cannot afford a good enforcement program at the SVL events than I would recommend relaxing the rules to a maximum throttle body size and RPM limit.

Steve

That is pretty well stated, but I think there should be a few more rules than that. But, ones that would be easily enforced. And I'd go a step farther, there should be a combination referee/tech inspector at every event. Top three places get checked for a list of easy items. The question, what would those be....

Throttle Body size
Maximum RPM during race
Width at transom top
Width at transom bottom
Step location from transom
Length from transom to tip
Width at widest point
Drive Ratio
Drive Height
Engine Serial Number
Seals on engine
Seals on Throttle Body, (or is this a moot item from what you say)
Propellor Blade Thickness
Weight

?????


And can there be a couple of inspectors from the other classes with no bone to pick who would be acceptable and do it for a reasonable amount? They'd already be at the event and would understand the issues. Have to be someone who raced in a cat class driving a manufacturer who didn't build Vee's probably to be acceptable.

 

[Steve Miklos]

A common referee inspector would be great,

I was speaking to engines.
I would have basic boat rules also but allow mods as it is really hard to tech bottoms.
(For the record in the past you needed 5 identical boats to be allowed in competition)
If you move from sealed engines it can be cheaper for some folks more for others. But at least you would know what you can and cant do.
Drive height I could go either way on. I would make sure all engine water was picked up through the outdrive and stick with Bravo's
Drive ratio's I would only limit it if you are sure it will be inspected at most if not all events.
Concerning weight all sanctioning groups are setup for measuring it. Finding hidden water is an entirely different subject. Without a sawzall and a group that will let you use it water can be hidden to great effect. Lowering the weight would help discourage cheating but hurt some boats who cannot make the lower weight.
On the throttle body you could use a simple go no/ go gauge and check for vacuum leaks.
Concerning Prop rules I could go either way on that. I think the tech on that is easy and usually if not always well done. I would encourage claiming on props at less than $2k.

I would also look at an engine claim of $20-25K to make sure things did not get way out of hand.

If stress gages were to appear much of this could be avoided
Steve

 

[Ratickle]

The bottom mods that would be allowed would have to be ones that a do-it-youselfer could do at home.

 

[Ratickle]

Finding hidden water is an entirely different subject. Without a sawzall and a group that will let you use it water can be hidden to great effect.
Steve

Why couldn't you limit the boat thru hulls to zero or use a surveyors hull pinger? Or both?

 

[Griswald]

back to the topic at hand..........103mph in SVL


looks like it just trapped 93mph

 

[Ratickle]

back to the topic at hand..........103mph in SVL


looks like it just trapped 93mph

Yep, needs 4 more mph for me to be right.....

 

[Ron P]

So what did the SVLs run today in LOTO?

 

[Ratickle]

So what did the SVLs run today in LOTO?

Watch Your Back ran 93. That was the only one I saw make a pass.

 

[imco offshore]

Paul ,,i think we need to open the bottom rules ,,to all older hulls,,,do what you want add steps ,,add shines,,,widen,,,narrow what ever driving style each needs ,,,even then they will make their boat certain water conditions better,,,go rough,,go flat,,go middle,,,open the bottom ,,then don,t worry about techn it,,12 year old boats will need a lot of work,,

 

[heater63]

What if a limit was set on the purchase price of a new turn key race ready boat and had to be delivered within six weeks of order.

 

[Ratickle]

What if a limit was set on the purchase price of a new turn key race ready boat and had to be delivered within six weeks of order.

I don't think that would matter much, the question really in everyone's mind, what happens after it's delivered? That is what reasonable rules and inspections have too be able to address.

It's kind of like tweaked ECM's. If everyone had them, it becomes a moot point, if you limit throttle body size and max rpm. But, if we can find a way to easily check ECM's for modifications, it also becomes a moot point. And, every stock 525 class has this issue addressed.

 

[Griswald]

why can't someone pull the data from the ECM and compare it to a stock 525? Take a whopping 2mins

 

[Ratickle]

why can't someone pull the data from the ECM and compare it to a stock 525? Take a whopping 2mins

Just need to figure out how I guess.

 

[imco offshore]

why can't someone pull the data from the ECM and compare it to a stock 525? Take a whopping 2mins

Gris your right ,,we do do that on occasion ,,,their are just soo many storys out their and everybody is paranoid ,,,the svl class ( as randy said) has always had an open book on our ecm,s ,,we were all willing to trade with each other , at an time,,,UNTIL RECENTLY ??? SOME DON,T BELIEVE THEY SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN TECH INSPECTION..,,

THIS CLASS IS GOING TO REGROUP AND MOVE ON,,,,SOON ! I,m working on a sponsor,, that will help respark our teams ,,:USA:

 

[Steve Miklos]

Just need to figure out how I guess.

Checksum is not reliable.

You need to flash ECM race morning. We did this with GM. They had their own password for each race. Before the race they would flash the ECM/change password. After the race they would check the password and run time at RPM's to be sure that ECM was raced.

Mercury has never allowed this so the 525 ECM's are immune to proper tech.


With MEFI-4 through HUD you can log every parameter from ignition timing to air inlet injector pulse fuel temp/flow 40 times per second. At this time you cannot do that with smartcraft although the data is there.
Steve

 

[Steve Miklos]

back to the topic at hand..........103mph in SVL


looks like it just trapped 93mph

In a short run in a SVL that is 200lbs overweight at the end of the race that is a giant number. Most SVL's cannot get to 93 at all. The few that can will take 1.5 miles if they can leave the corner in the high 60 mph range.
Steve

 

[Ratickle]

Didn't Jenni run 91 or 92 in the shootout last year?

 

[Ratickle]

Checksum is not reliable.

You need to flash ECM race morning. We did this with GM. They had their own password for each race. Before the race they would flash the ECM/change password. After the race they would check the password and run time at RPM's to be sure that ECM was raced.

Mercury has never allowed this so the 525 ECM's are immune to proper tech.


With MEFI-4 through HUD you can log every parameter from ignition timing to air inlet injector pulse fuel temp/flow 40 times per second. At this time you cannot do that with smartcraft although the data is there.
Steve

Isn't the MEFI-4 a change from a 3 pin to a 4 pin setup and a reprogram if the engine came with the MEFI-3? And, if so, you're saying it is easily checkable?

 

[Steve Miklos]

Isn't the MEFI-4 a change from a 3 pin to a 4 pin setup and a reprogram if the engine came with the MEFI-3? And, if so, you're saying it is easily checkable?

I dont know about that but it could be. If you have a single calibration and you flash all ECM's before the race with a new password and than check them after the race it is pretty foolproof.

If someone was to reflash the ECM they would need to know the password of the day.

If the teams runs another ECM the totals will not match unless they run the ECM on another engine at the same time. Sealing the ECM to the engines helps prevent this as does sealing the hatch after the race.

The 525 has several different revisions of ECM's that are all legal which helps add to the confusion.
Steve