Okay, how do we beat this?

[Ted]

In MD we are having another bout with noise regulations this year, and although it was not supposed to go anywhere, now it may be areal deal, below is a synopsis of what we are up against.

Maryland Department of Natural Resources has a bill which contains an act concerning vessel noise limitations on state waters. The bill proposes the noise level be limited to 88dB(A) for vessels made after 1993. For vessels manufactured before 1993, 90dB(A) is the proposed limit.
In summary, it states that as of July 1, 2010 the vessel cannot be equipped with an altered muffler or a device that bypasses, reduces, or eliminates the effectiveness of a muffler or noise suppression device.
Fines are $500 for the 1st offense. $1,000 or imprisonment of 30 days or both for the second.
This MUST be stopped! The National Marine Manufacturer’s (NMMA) has said they can live with the 88DB(A) as long as “Captain’s Choice” (by pass system) is allowed. The bill, as it is written, limits the noise and does not allow for by-pass systems at all.
This all came about when members of the Elk River Yacht Club complained that their “quality of life” is being ruined by those noisy boats.
If you are interested in reading the entire bill, visit the State of MD General Assembly website at www.mlis.state.md.us. In the “Submit Query” box put “SB 70”. The site also contains information on how to contact your Legislator.
We need the help of every member. Please write or call your Senator and/or Delegates. This bill impacts the entire state. ASK THAT THIS BILL BE STOPPED! Below is an example of what you might say:
Regarding Senate Bill 70:
Please reject any change in the existing regulations regarding vessel noise on the waters of the State of Maryland. One problem being that we do not have adequate enforcement of existing regulations.
It is my understanding that Senate Bill 70 is the result of a complaint by only a few residents living in the Northeastern portion of the state. Please do not make this a State Regulation for everyone.
In addition, the proposal goes against what the National Marine Manufacturer’s Association (NMMA proposes. The industry cannot comply with this bill as it is written. Please reconsider SB70.

So here is what I need. How do we argue against this? It is basically in line with Fed law and how do you make an argument that louder is better to the "civilians" ? How can a guy claim economic hardship when he needs to buy $1200 bucks worth of mufflers on a 100k boat? Give me some reasonable arguments to use, this could get Serious for us in MD.

 

[Seafordguy]

I really feel for you guys that have to deal with Noise concerns and Marine Police on a consistent basis. I pray that our area never gets like that.

88db - that is ridiculous....

 

[ChiefApache]

Well looks like we might not make it to Cambridge this year if that's the case..........:leaving:

 

[Ted]

The stupid thing is that we have had the 90 dB law in effect for almost 20 years and in all that time I have heard of about 2 people getting a ticket for noise. The DNR police have no money for training, equipment, or enforcement. Out of principle we want to fight this but I have not heard a decent argument to use. Our Association was instrumental in getting the 90 dB statute passed because the old one was worse and confusing. This all comes from jackasses that buy a house on the water and then get wakened from their afternoon nap in the hammock by a loud boat-once. Then they argue all about their "quality of life".

 

[Ted]

Well looks like we might not make it to Cambridge this year if that's the case..........:leaving:

As it turns out Barbie, you would be participating in a Coast Guard approved event so your boat would be exempt :sifone::sifone:

In fact if this crap goes through all of our members will be "practicing" for Coast Guard approved events (poker runs, races) all summer long.....

 

[ChiefApache]

As it turns out Barbie, you would be participating in a Coast Guard approved event so your boat would be exempt :sifone::sifone:

In fact if this crap goes through all of our members will be "practicing" for Coast Guard approved events (poker runs, races) all summer long.....

Whew....glad to hear that.

We are forutnate they do not enforce our 90dB in our area. Now downtown Cleveland is another story.

 

[Smarty]

In MD we are having another bout with noise regulations this year, and although it was not supposed to go anywhere, now it may be areal deal, below is a synopsis of what we are up against.

Maryland Department of Natural Resources has a bill which contains an act concerning vessel noise limitations on state waters. The bill proposes the noise level be limited to 88dB(A) for vessels made after 1993. For vessels manufactured before 1993, 90dB(A) is the proposed limit.
In summary, it states that as of July 1, 2010 the vessel cannot be equipped with an altered muffler or a device that bypasses, reduces, or eliminates the effectiveness of a muffler or noise suppression device.
Fines are $500 for the 1st offense. $1,000 or imprisonment of 30 days or both for the second.
This MUST be stopped! The National Marine Manufacturer’s (NMMA) has said they can live with the 88DB(A) as long as “Captain’s Choice” (by pass system) is allowed. The bill, as it is written, limits the noise and does not allow for by-pass systems at all.
This all came about when members of the Elk River Yacht Club complained that their “quality of life” is being ruined by those noisy boats.
If you are interested in reading the entire bill, visit the State of MD General Assembly website at www.mlis.state.md.us. In the “Submit Query” box put “SB 70”. The site also contains information on how to contact your Legislator.
We need the help of every member. Please write or call your Senator and/or Delegates. This bill impacts the entire state. ASK THAT THIS BILL BE STOPPED! Below is an example of what you might say:
Regarding Senate Bill 70:
Please reject any change in the existing regulations regarding vessel noise on the waters of the State of Maryland. One problem being that we do not have adequate enforcement of existing regulations.
It is my understanding that Senate Bill 70 is the result of a complaint by only a few residents living in the Northeastern portion of the state. Please do not make this a State Regulation for everyone.
In addition, the proposal goes against what the National Marine Manufacturer’s Association (NMMA proposes. The industry cannot comply with this bill as it is written. Please reconsider SB70.

So here is what I need. How do we argue against this? It is basically in line with Fed law and how do you make an argument that louder is better to the "civilians" ? How can a guy claim economic hardship when he needs to buy $1200 bucks worth of mufflers on a 100k boat? Give me some reasonable arguments to use, this could get Serious for us in MD.

1. Find out who are the sponsor(s). Schedule a meeting with the sponsor(s), get their position ask questions, listen, make it like a sales call. Tailor your position based on what are the hot-buttons for each legislator. Address the wording of the bill to allow for by-pass sytems. That is your argument not the noise level. The noise level proposal is in line with sister states. Argue that 90 db with switchable mufflers is a fair law. At 90 db with switchable mufflers, the technology exists and it will not be a economic hardship for boaters, and it will not be a econmic on the state of Maryland's tourism, recreation and marine industry because boater will still use Maryland waters for recreation with the NMMA version of the bill. Here is the db laws for sister states, watch though, some sister states do not allow switchable muffler systems:

http://www.questtechnologies.com/Assets/Documents/BoatNoiseRegs.pdf

page twenty five, or go to CPPerformance: http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTips/state_noise_laws.htm


2. What is the NMMA proposal (I am not familar with it)? That is essentially your position. Give a copy of the NMMA to the bill's sponsors. Sell them on that proposal.

3.This is a weak arguement, but one none the less. This will take some real defined research and analysis: Economic hardship for the marine industry, restaurants in the state of Maryland. Need statistical proof that 20%, 30%, or whatever the research may reveal, that there are truly out-of-state boaters who bring $,$$$,$$$+ dollars into the Maryland economy each boating season by buying supplies, fuel, food and beverage, hotel, ect. Show that the state will shoot itself in the foot, and drive the business away to NJ, VA, DE, PA, NY ect with this proposed law. Come up with statistics that show that how many thousand(s) boaters from PA, NJ, DE, VA, NC use the MD waters, and that the law affects 20% (or wahtever the statistic may reveal) of the boaters. This statistic may be hard to identify (to determine). That this law will essentially is a nuisance ordinace, not a public health, welfare or safety law at all, and that it will have a grave economic impact on the State of Maryland. While the Poker Run may be exempt per your earlier post, it can be argued that there are many of the Poker Runners who do boat in the MD waterways when Poker Runs are not held. And that is just a very small statistical sample. But they spend $$$$ per weeekend to benefit Maryland business. This law is an anti-business law, that drive consumer spending to other states.

This is my $.02, start selling now. Good luck.

Stephen R. Jones, Attorney-at-Law

 

[Premier Perf]

Move to MIAMI

 

[OldSchool]

As it turns out Barbie, you would be participating in a Coast Guard approved event so your boat would be exempt :sifone::sifone:

In fact if this crap goes through all of our members will be "practicing" for Coast Guard approved events (poker runs, races) all summer long.....

Anyone have any suggestions on what number I should put on my boat??

How about P4-69? Is that being used by anyone?:sifone::sifone::sifone::cheers2::cheers2::cheers2:

 

[Ted]

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it and know how valuable your time is. The real problem we are facing is that the bill was dead and now all of a sudden got the backing of the DNR (Dept Nat Resources) so it got some real clout. There has been a very small but vocal group of aged sailboaters on a single river that have driven this. I suspect the DNR got behind this to shut them up. Because we know there is NO funding available to enforce this. Now it is possible that DNR thinks there may be some additional funding if the law passes but I think that is a stretch. In talking with a Senator's office this morning we may have already lost this one on the level allowed, they are now just trying to amend for fines and exemptions. The only bright spot is that in the 20 or so years since the 90dB was enacted there have been less than 10 tickets written that we know about, and the testing procedure is virtually impossible to perform.

 

[Salesmanship]

I have been dealing with this since the mid 90's when I lived in Missouri.
Back then our only defense was there was no real solution to quiet down the boat with the existing muffler technology.
The problem is how do you sit in front of legislators and justify your right to make a lot of noise?
That's why we came up with our quiet exhaust system. It may not be the head turner that a loud boat is but nobody can complain about it and we're free to continue our passion of hi-performance boating.
I truly feel that if the boats didn't make all the noise then we wouldn't be fighting all of the speed restrictions either. Noisey boats are going too fast and ruining our lives....
Sorry but that's the way all of this heading and eventually we'll lose the battle.

 

[OldSchool]

It's an economic (and possibly marriage stressing) situation if I have to replace 19K worth of Stellings exhaust on my 22 year old boat!!!!

....and what do I replace it with that will knock the db's down from 110 to 88????

Should I just give in and get 12 electric trolling motors and clamp them to my swim platform? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!


Ted,
What's the phone # for Pipkins office? You can PM it to me. Thanks

 

[Ted]

I have been dealing with this since the mid 90's when I lived in Missouri.
Back then our only defense was there was no real solution to quiet down the boat with the existing muffler technology.
The problem is how do you sit in front of legislators and justify your right to make a lot of noise?
That's why we came up with our quiet exhaust system. It may not be the head turner that a loud boat is but nobody can complain about it and we're free to continue our passion of hi-performance boating.
I truly feel that if the boats didn't make all the noise then we wouldn't be fighting all of the speed restrictions either. Noisey boats are going too fast and ruining our lives....
Sorry but that's the way all of this heading and eventually we'll lose the battle.

Yeah, it is really hard to argue that we should be able to make noise. And since you guys and others have proven it can be done it is even harder to make the case that boats can't be made quiet. And in the real world the loudness cannot be checked (no equipment or certified operator) but it can be a reason for probable cause, they can pull you over just to snoop. I must admit it is also really amusing to go out to a big, flashy boat and watch people start to cover their ears and stuff, until the boat starts and is quieter than the average cruiser. Almost as funny as watching them jump when a dry pipe engine crackles to life :sifone::sifone:

 

[Smarty]

It's an economic (and possibly marriage stressing) situation if I have to replace 19K worth of Stellings exhaust on my 22 year old boat!!!!

....and what do I replace it with that will knock the db's down from 110 to 88????

Should I just give in and get 12 electric trolling motors and clamp them to my swim platform? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!


Ted,
What's the phone # for Pipkins office? You can PM it to me. Thanks

Do you have mufflers now (I assume no if you are at 110 db)? Get arguing for the switchable mufflers for your set-up, or look to have your boat grandfathered into the bill (exempt), and that bill could be amended for just your type of scenario. Send fax, e-mail, and hard-copy letter (and phone) to the legislator(s) who are sponsoring the bill.

I assume, not knowing all the facts, that they do not want the full-time muffler-system like a Gibson or altered exhaust that will make the 88 db limit?: http://www.gibsonmarine.com/featured.html Mufflers, and noise switchable systems, like Silent Choice, need to be incorporated into this bill.

 

[Ted]

The reason they are not going for the switchable system is the same reason exhaust cut outs are not allowed on cars. They think you will only use them when tested.

 

[Smarty]

The reason they are not going for the switchable system is the same reason exhaust cut outs are not allowed on cars. They think you will only use them when tested.

Understood. I would argue that the Silent Choice systems is a viable alternative, that is coast effective and will produce the desired results that the bill's sponsor seeks, I have Silent Choice, I boat in the Elk and upper Chesapeake, so I am too interested in this bill. Would the full-time muffler, like the Gibsons, be an approved muffling device?

 

[jhenrie]

The current 90 db will make most lawnmowers not in compliance. I used to get complaints when I raced jet skis of noise when we were testing and practicing here. A cop showed up and had a db meter. The lawnmowers across the street were louder than our skis running some loud pipes. Kinda pizzed off the people that complained. Good luck , make sure you write the legislators. Start a petition to keep the current law in place and not over regulate with new nonsense legislation !!!

 

[Ted]

Understood. I would argue that the Silent Choice systems is a viable alternative, that is coast effective and will produce the desired results that the bill's sponsor seeks, I have Silent Choice, I bota in the Elk and upper Chesapeake, so I am too interested in this bill. Would the full-time muffler, like the Gibsons, be a approved muffling device?

Yes, according to the existing law at 90 dB all boats sold in the state since 1990 were supposed to have a muffler system installed. I have no idea how so many boats were sold here without them, but none were made here and there is no inspection on boats so I guess they have just slid by.

 

[OldSchool]

Yes, according to the existing law at 90 dB all boats sold in the state since 1990 were supposed to have a muffler system installed. I have no idea how so many boats were sold here without them, but none were made here and there is no inspection on boats so I guess they have just slid by.

Is anything older than a 1990 exempt???????????

 

[PlumCrazy]

I really feel for you guys that have to deal with Noise concerns and Marine Police on a consistent basis. I pray that our area never gets like that.

88db - that is ridiculous....

We have a 84dB limit in Minnesota! Switchable exhaust is illegal here. I run both mufflers and turn-downs and the noise police don't even give me a second look.