Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
You guys need to merge these two threads so it is apparant what we're looking at.....
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7358
Headlines
Splashing a hull and deck
- Thread starter sledge
- Start date
You guys need to merge these two threads so it is apparant what we're looking at.....
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7358
The only common point between the threads is the actual hull. I asked a generic question about what it takes to make a mold from an existing hull & deck. The other thread is to share a very rare piece of history that I'd like to preserve. So far only Dave and Chris have provided much insight as to what it takes to make a mold. The rest is people getting their panties in a bunch. 
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
The only common point between the threads is the actual hull. I asked a generic question about what it takes to make a mold from an existing hull & deck. The other thread is to share a very rare piece of history that I'd like to preserve. So far only Dave and Chris have provided much insight as to what it takes to make a mold. The rest is people getting their panties in a bunch.
No panties in a bunch here. I'm on your side. I would also see if you could get our Icons to assist with the mold and restoration. A herd of baby Cigs around the wet pits would be a very cool thing.
Thanks Dave!
Thanks. But like I said, I have zero motivation to become a boat builder. Really just trying to get a handle on whether there's some monetary break-even that I could convince this guy to take a copy and give me the original.
Steve 1
Contributor
Thanks. But like I said, I have zero motivation to become a boat builder. Really just trying to get a handle on whether there's some monetary break-even that I could convince this guy to take a copy and give me the original.
Simple run the Material cost for the mold Like the Release, Gelcoat and glass material resin and 1oz mat is all I would use in the buildup.the labor is easy to figure once time frames are established; If you got permission.. a couple things the 24’s you see running around are traceable to a 23 foot mica mold the old master Schoell Built to produce a boat for Doc Magoon the 27 Magnum another Schoell Boat was 29 feet originally Now the 27 Magnum that is a touchy subject and look for something in the future from Magnum on that(real Nice people there)
Racerguymiami
New member
Vhdpa
Read this. If the original hull design has not been registered under the VHDPA of 2008 you can splash the hell out of it. Only 11 builders have registered their designs.
http://floridaiptrends.com/2009/02/23/vessel-hull-design-protection-act-what-the-hull/
Florida is the Sunshine State, and along with all that sunshine comes an inordinate amount of love for boats. We love boats so much that our lawmakers even tried to create a law protecting the manufacturers of boats from unauthorized copying of their boat hull designs. The U.S. Supreme Court didn’t take kindly to that, and a little thing called the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution settled the matter. That case was the 1988 case of Bonito Boats v. Thunder Craft Boats, and Justice O’Connor, writing for a unanimous Court, stated that Florida’s law was in essence a competing intellectual property protection scheme to the U.S. Patent and Copyright laws. As such, it failed.
But, the case did open a can of sunshine on the issue, and Congress responded to the concerns of boat manufacturers by including the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act (“VHDPA”) within the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. As with Florida’s invalidated statute, the VHDPA intended to curb the practice of “splashing” boat hulls. Splashing occurs when a manufacturer takes a finished boat hull and dips it into some mold-making compound to produce a mold of the hull. Imagine filling a pan with modeling compound (such as Play-Doh® brand), sticking your hand into the compound to create an impression, and then filling the void with resin to create a duplicate of your hand – you have just “splashed” your hand.
Although the VHDPA protects designs, it is administered by the U.S. Copyright Office and codified at 17 U.S.C. § 1301, et. al. Boat manufacturers now have a trifecta of protection for the design of hulls: 1) design patent protection under the Patent Act, 2) trade dress protection under the Lanham Act, and 3) “original design” protection under the Copyright Act. (While this article is not intended to weigh the pros and cons of the different protection mechanisms, it is interesting to note the hybrid nature of VHDPA protection.)
Is My Design Eligible?
In order for your boat design to qualify for VHDPA registration, you must seek registration within 2 years of the date the design was first made public. A design is made public “when an existing useful article embodying the design is anywhere publicly exhibited, publicly distributed, or offered for sale or sold to the public by the owner of the design or with the owner’s consent.” 17 U.S.C. § 1310.
The design must also be original, not a staple or commonplace design, and ornamental (i.e. not utilitarian). The issuance of a design patent will also cancel and/or prevent registration under the VHDPA.
How Does it Work?
Assuming your design is eligible, the VHDPA gives protection to “the design of a vessel hull, deck, or combination of a hull and deck, including a plug or mold…” “Hull” is defined as “the exterior frame or body of a vessel, exclusive of the deck, superstructure, masts, sails, yards, rigging, hardware, fixtures, and other attachments,” and a “deck” is defined as “the horizontal surface of a vessel that covers the hull, including exterior cabin and cockpit surfaces…”
In order to receive protection, you must fill out Form D-VH, attach “deposit material” (pictures of your boat), and pay the fee (currently $200).
Once you submit the required material, the Copyright Office will examine the application and determine if the design meets the statutory standards for registration. If so, the design will be registered and published. The publication date will serve as the date of registration.
You are also required to mark the hull and/or deck in some manner to show that it has been registered. The Copyright Office requires the words “Protected Design”, the abbreviation “Prot’d Des.”, a “circle D” symbol similar to the ® for a registered trademark, or the symbol “*D*”. You must also include the year protection commenced and the name of the owner or the generally accepted alternative designation of the owner. The “generally accepted alternative designation of the owner” is interesting in that it requires the owner to record such a designation with the Copyright Office. This is all a fancy way to describe your logo. If your boat company operates under a logo, you can record the logo with the Copyright Office and use that “alternative designation” when marking the boat with the “Protected Design” designation. So, “Kevin Wimberly, *D* 2009″ would satisfy the marking requirement as would “[Your logo as recorded at the C0pyright Office’, *D* 2009.”
As of today, only 11 logos/designations have been recorded with the Copyright Office. See them HERE.
What Benefit Does It Give Me?
A registered vessel hull or deck design is protected for 10 years from the earlier of the date of registration or the date the design is first made public. 17 U.S.C. § 1304. The protection gives the registrant the exclusive right to make, have made, import, sell, and/or distribute any useful article embodying the registered design.
If someone does infringe the design, assuming the design was properly marked upon receiving a registration, the registrant may recover actual damages, the infringer’s profits, attorney’s fees, and an injunction requiring the infringer to cease infringing and to destroy any molds and devices used to create infringing hulls. Note that if the registrant did NOT mark the vessel in accordance with 17 U.S.C. § 1306, the recovery of damages will only accrue from the time the registrant put the alleged infringer on notice, such as via a cease and desist letter which asserts the registration.
Why Are You Writing About It in 2009?
Good question. Late last year (October 16, 2008 to be precise), the Vessel Hull Design Protection Amendments of 2008 were approved and signed into law by President Bush. These amendments closed a loophole by which some manufacturers took advantage of loose definitions in the original VHDPA. Prior to the Amendments, the definition of “hull” included the deck, which meant that a manufacturer could splash the hull of a competitor’s boat and simply change the features of the deck and not infringe under the VHDPA. As shown above, the VHDPA now differentiates between the hull and the deck of a vessel, and both are protected individually or in combination.
Is the VHDPA For Me?
It could be. That depends on your specific circumstances, and you should consult an attorney to help you make that determination. The general concensus is that registrations under the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act are fewer than anticipated. This may be because of the aforementioned loophole. Given that the loophole was only recently closed, it may take some time for manufacturers to begin registering their designs again. The most recent design on the Copyright Office’s website is from October 8, 2008. You can view the entire library of registered vessel designs HERE.
Read this. If the original hull design has not been registered under the VHDPA of 2008 you can splash the hell out of it. Only 11 builders have registered their designs.
http://floridaiptrends.com/2009/02/23/vessel-hull-design-protection-act-what-the-hull/
Florida is the Sunshine State, and along with all that sunshine comes an inordinate amount of love for boats. We love boats so much that our lawmakers even tried to create a law protecting the manufacturers of boats from unauthorized copying of their boat hull designs. The U.S. Supreme Court didn’t take kindly to that, and a little thing called the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution settled the matter. That case was the 1988 case of Bonito Boats v. Thunder Craft Boats, and Justice O’Connor, writing for a unanimous Court, stated that Florida’s law was in essence a competing intellectual property protection scheme to the U.S. Patent and Copyright laws. As such, it failed.
But, the case did open a can of sunshine on the issue, and Congress responded to the concerns of boat manufacturers by including the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act (“VHDPA”) within the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. As with Florida’s invalidated statute, the VHDPA intended to curb the practice of “splashing” boat hulls. Splashing occurs when a manufacturer takes a finished boat hull and dips it into some mold-making compound to produce a mold of the hull. Imagine filling a pan with modeling compound (such as Play-Doh® brand), sticking your hand into the compound to create an impression, and then filling the void with resin to create a duplicate of your hand – you have just “splashed” your hand.
Although the VHDPA protects designs, it is administered by the U.S. Copyright Office and codified at 17 U.S.C. § 1301, et. al. Boat manufacturers now have a trifecta of protection for the design of hulls: 1) design patent protection under the Patent Act, 2) trade dress protection under the Lanham Act, and 3) “original design” protection under the Copyright Act. (While this article is not intended to weigh the pros and cons of the different protection mechanisms, it is interesting to note the hybrid nature of VHDPA protection.)
Is My Design Eligible?
In order for your boat design to qualify for VHDPA registration, you must seek registration within 2 years of the date the design was first made public. A design is made public “when an existing useful article embodying the design is anywhere publicly exhibited, publicly distributed, or offered for sale or sold to the public by the owner of the design or with the owner’s consent.” 17 U.S.C. § 1310.
The design must also be original, not a staple or commonplace design, and ornamental (i.e. not utilitarian). The issuance of a design patent will also cancel and/or prevent registration under the VHDPA.
How Does it Work?
Assuming your design is eligible, the VHDPA gives protection to “the design of a vessel hull, deck, or combination of a hull and deck, including a plug or mold…” “Hull” is defined as “the exterior frame or body of a vessel, exclusive of the deck, superstructure, masts, sails, yards, rigging, hardware, fixtures, and other attachments,” and a “deck” is defined as “the horizontal surface of a vessel that covers the hull, including exterior cabin and cockpit surfaces…”
In order to receive protection, you must fill out Form D-VH, attach “deposit material” (pictures of your boat), and pay the fee (currently $200).
Once you submit the required material, the Copyright Office will examine the application and determine if the design meets the statutory standards for registration. If so, the design will be registered and published. The publication date will serve as the date of registration.
You are also required to mark the hull and/or deck in some manner to show that it has been registered. The Copyright Office requires the words “Protected Design”, the abbreviation “Prot’d Des.”, a “circle D” symbol similar to the ® for a registered trademark, or the symbol “*D*”. You must also include the year protection commenced and the name of the owner or the generally accepted alternative designation of the owner. The “generally accepted alternative designation of the owner” is interesting in that it requires the owner to record such a designation with the Copyright Office. This is all a fancy way to describe your logo. If your boat company operates under a logo, you can record the logo with the Copyright Office and use that “alternative designation” when marking the boat with the “Protected Design” designation. So, “Kevin Wimberly, *D* 2009″ would satisfy the marking requirement as would “[Your logo as recorded at the C0pyright Office’, *D* 2009.”
As of today, only 11 logos/designations have been recorded with the Copyright Office. See them HERE.
What Benefit Does It Give Me?
A registered vessel hull or deck design is protected for 10 years from the earlier of the date of registration or the date the design is first made public. 17 U.S.C. § 1304. The protection gives the registrant the exclusive right to make, have made, import, sell, and/or distribute any useful article embodying the registered design.
If someone does infringe the design, assuming the design was properly marked upon receiving a registration, the registrant may recover actual damages, the infringer’s profits, attorney’s fees, and an injunction requiring the infringer to cease infringing and to destroy any molds and devices used to create infringing hulls. Note that if the registrant did NOT mark the vessel in accordance with 17 U.S.C. § 1306, the recovery of damages will only accrue from the time the registrant put the alleged infringer on notice, such as via a cease and desist letter which asserts the registration.
Why Are You Writing About It in 2009?
Good question. Late last year (October 16, 2008 to be precise), the Vessel Hull Design Protection Amendments of 2008 were approved and signed into law by President Bush. These amendments closed a loophole by which some manufacturers took advantage of loose definitions in the original VHDPA. Prior to the Amendments, the definition of “hull” included the deck, which meant that a manufacturer could splash the hull of a competitor’s boat and simply change the features of the deck and not infringe under the VHDPA. As shown above, the VHDPA now differentiates between the hull and the deck of a vessel, and both are protected individually or in combination.
Is the VHDPA For Me?
It could be. That depends on your specific circumstances, and you should consult an attorney to help you make that determination. The general concensus is that registrations under the Vessel Hull Design Protection Act are fewer than anticipated. This may be because of the aforementioned loophole. Given that the loophole was only recently closed, it may take some time for manufacturers to begin registering their designs again. The most recent design on the Copyright Office’s website is from October 8, 2008. You can view the entire library of registered vessel designs HERE.
MarylandMark
Charter Member
Welcome to SOS and thank you for the information!
Can I ask how you know all of that? IE- you a boat builder?
Can I ask how you know all of that? IE- you a boat builder?
Raceyguymiami - I suggest you consult an attorney before encouraging people to splash any boat hull not protected under the VHDPA.
As the article states, "Boat manufacturers now have a trifecta of protection for the design of hulls: 1) design patent protection under the Patent Act, 2) trade dress protection under the Lanham Act, and 3) “original design” protection under the Copyright Act. (While this article is not intended to weigh the pros and cons of the different protection mechanisms, it is interesting to note the hybrid nature of VHDPA protection.)"
As the article states, "Boat manufacturers now have a trifecta of protection for the design of hulls: 1) design patent protection under the Patent Act, 2) trade dress protection under the Lanham Act, and 3) “original design” protection under the Copyright Act. (While this article is not intended to weigh the pros and cons of the different protection mechanisms, it is interesting to note the hybrid nature of VHDPA protection.)"
Powerabout
New member
If you want to splash a boat to ensure its around for future generations why not just get it scanned and you can keep the cad file ready for a mill cut plug in the future
then you dont have to worry about shrinkage putting hooks in all the surfaces.
then you dont have to worry about shrinkage putting hooks in all the surfaces.
glassdave
Founding Member / Competitor
you'll have several thousand in just the scan and you can count on 20 or 30K for a foam plug.
scippy
New member
I've just come aboard and would like to say hello to all. I hope to cut my teeth here when I start work on my '73 Mag sport this spring. It's interesting to hear how so few designed hulls (back in the day) have spawned so many different boat building companies I guess all had profit in mind and most would have to tip thier hats but for the few iconic hulls of the past, happy to know Magnum is one.
MarylandMark
Charter Member
Welcome Scippy!!
The magnums were and still are great boats. This board lives to see and hear about projects that guys are doing, and a classic hull like that will garner a lot of interest. Start a thread and show some pics of that bad boy right now and hopefully if you need any advise, parts, or help our merry band of boaters can hook you up. Welcome, looking forward to seeing the boat!
OneBadInjun
New member
The 41 Apache did not come from lengthening a 27 Magnum hull. Many other boats have, as you said, but the Apache was not one of them.
OneBadInjun
New member
The 28 Cig was never used as a base, plug, or anything, to begin tooling of the 35. So there was no progression to the 41. Ask Brownie.
OneBadInjun
New member
MarylandMark
Charter Member
Carroll Shelby is the absolute last person in the business that should be part of a discussion of ethics and moralities. Loved the cars, but his business practices, past and present, would make the Mafia wince. He went downhill with the 30 frames issue, and it got worse from there.
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