skaterdave
New member
you left out the part that the US has boats running close to 200 mph in races. which is about 60 mph faster than C1?????
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New safety rules
- Thread starter Heatwave
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you left out the part that the US has boats running close to 200 mph in races. which is about 60 mph faster than C1?????
Ryan Beckley
Charter Member / Competitor
You are right Guy, that was probably not a fair statement. There has not been a formal report but I know there has been a lot of investigations into these accidents. I wonder if it has to do with the liability or more so no one wanting to be liable? OSS has had a few safety meeting or seminars and the safety guy will always give you good advice on there thoughts on your systems. BUT..... I do believe everyone has different opinions on safety and what is the best to do, just like some people saying that ANYTHING other than a polycarbonate window is junk......others say the acrylic is the was to go....... I don't know myself. I look at all the info presented and make the best decision for my self. I also believe that many racers think that what they've got is "GOOD ENOUGH" and don't want to be hassled with changing what they've got, so if they were mandated to make some of these drastic changes some teams would just not compete or go poker running. The sanctioning bodies right now may not want to chase off any other teams as the numbers are severely lacking in the classes that would be affected by these rules. I agree with safety need to be a focus and builders need to build the best stuff but the teams also need to take care of what they've got. I my self am making some changes to better what I have..... not to the full extent of what these new WPPA rules state but moving that direction.
shifter
Charter Member
Rat,
Wind screen / A pillar (mirror) / B pillar (behind head) / C pillar (back support) on 4 seater. It does not look like the boat had a roll hoop. The A pillar should connect to the one on the other side in a line not a vee. This is looking at the canopy fron the top view.
If you look at a dune buggy that should be a minimum cage in a boat, made out of Stainless or Chrome moly. Coby Klein made a canopy set up in his 36 Skater like sprint car in each side after the wreck he was in broke his back. It was very well thought out and very safe.
Most of the focus has been in a frontal stuff not rear impact or a two boat wreck.
I talked to several friends about the C1 accident. I was told that they were both gone on impact. If you look at the speed and conditions it was fairly normal offshore. The back of the canopy failed. The bulkhead gave way and pushed them forward into the dash.
Looking at the rule mods they are attempting to rectify the lack of strength in the canopy.
I hope this info gets around so that people who are racing make the changes to insure a safer raceboat.
pat W
Wind screen / A pillar (mirror) / B pillar (behind head) / C pillar (back support) on 4 seater. It does not look like the boat had a roll hoop. The A pillar should connect to the one on the other side in a line not a vee. This is looking at the canopy fron the top view.
If you look at a dune buggy that should be a minimum cage in a boat, made out of Stainless or Chrome moly. Coby Klein made a canopy set up in his 36 Skater like sprint car in each side after the wreck he was in broke his back. It was very well thought out and very safe.
Most of the focus has been in a frontal stuff not rear impact or a two boat wreck.
I talked to several friends about the C1 accident. I was told that they were both gone on impact. If you look at the speed and conditions it was fairly normal offshore. The back of the canopy failed. The bulkhead gave way and pushed them forward into the dash.
Looking at the rule mods they are attempting to rectify the lack of strength in the canopy.
I hope this info gets around so that people who are racing make the changes to insure a safer raceboat.
pat W
So... in the US because of "liability" issues the racing orgs can not mandate canopy design?...but yet there are still mandatory canopy rules anyway. The boat builder designs and builds the canopy...but does not have liability issues? So the individual racer should decide how his canopy should be built or reinforced to ensure his safety. Then at this time I would suggest that all racers look at their canopy design and add reinforcement as they see fit, and the minimum weights should be increased to allow for these reinforcements.
HateTank
New member
In NHRA drag racing the safety requirements are based on the speed a car can reach,the faster a car go's the more tubes in the cage.(NHRA owns SFI who designs these standards and inforce's there use)If a boat is built to go 100mph safely then stepping up power to go 150mph should require more reinforcements in the canopy area.IMO
Wahoo 214
Charter Member
That boat appears to be made out of thin plywood. Did that play a major role in its destruction? The Canopy also looks very week with the glass blowing out.
Ryan Beckley
Charter Member / Competitor
There are several of these wooden HotBoats running all over the worlds, all made of wood. Giovanni's orange boat that won last years X cat championship is the same boat....
We had a narrow escape in Norway last year when a HotBoat did a perfect roll at ~85 MPH - canopy collapsed. OSS has got our accident report, and it has been submitted to UIM. Fortunately both pilots survived (running on same team as us). After the crash we looked at how the canopy was built, and I can tell we have been horrified.
Henry has the same boat in class 3C, and he is not racing it until the cockpit has been completely rebuilt.
Lots of good thoughts are now finally (?) going into construction of canopies, but we should take care about rushing decisions. It is a difficult subject. For instance there have been rules suggested that only works for side by side canopies (e.g. tunnel hatch).
Btw: The wooden hull had virtually no damages, but the canopy (or the rest of it) was horrific...
Morten
drag boats have a pod of some type , not sure what it is made of or how . It seems to protect the occupant at over 200 mph . is that something you all could incorporate in the big cats ? if not , how does it work in a smaller hull vs the larger ones . ( this is an honest question , no politics) Thanx MIKE G.
skaterdave
New member
morten, i not busting balls here, but did you just not look at what you had? i've seen people race boats that had delam problems, blow off questioning it, and then act surprised when the bottom falls off!!
it seems many here in the US just shrug alot of this off ?
I totally agree (it wasn't my boat), but it is hard to see how things are built w/o cutting it to pieces. I looked inside the canopy when both boats came to Norway, and they looked ok - keep in mind they are built in Argentina, not easy to follow the building process.
Morten
Hi Pat,
take a look at this link at Frode's site: http://f2boat.com/how-safe-is-ur-cocpit/#comments.
(I know - I look very sexy in my wet suit...
)Morten
shifter
Charter Member
Morten, I remember the hotstaff boat from Arendal.
I thought this was very well written so I moved it here.
pat W
Extracts from the Reports given on Class 3C from Simon
Belgium
Over the last 6 years an overall amount of 15 boats, but low turn out at races, the total number of accidents is 0 and thereby 0 injuries.
Finland
Over the last 5 years and 123 starts, the total number of accidents is 4 (3 open/1 Canopy). Of the 3 open boat accidents: No personal injuries. Of the Canopy accident: No personal injuries.
France
Over the last 5 years and 295 starts, the total number of accidents is 0.
Great Britain
Over the last 6 years and 961 starts, the total number of accidents is 15 (11 open/4 Canopy). Of the 11 open boat accidents: 1 KO, 1 Fractured ribs, 1 Jarred neck and the rest minor cuts and bruises. Of the 4 Canopy accidents: 1 Near drowning and the rest no severe injuries.
Italy
Over the last 5 years and 394 starts, the total number of accidents is 12 (2 open/10 Canopy). Of the 2 open boat accidents: No personal injuries. Of the 10 Canopy accidents: No personal injuries.
Norway
Over the last 7 years and 294 starts, the total number of accidents is 12 (4 open/8 Canopy). Of the 4 open boat accidents: 1 shoulder dislocated and the rest minor cuts and bruises. Of the 8 Canopy accidents: 1 Fractural damage to the spinal core, 1 Canopy broken and severe injuries in face, jaw broken in several places and a number of teeth lost, and in addition a fraction of the scull broke loose in the back of the head. The other accidents gave only minor cuts and bruises.
Sweden
Over the last 5 years and 196 starts, the total number of accidents is 9 (4 open/5 Canopy). Of the 4 open boat accidents: 1 fractured rib, and the rest minor cuts and bruises. Of the 5 Canopy accidents: No injuries
Conclusion
Over the last 5 – 7 years and 2263 starts, the total number of accidents is 52 (24 open/28 Canopy). Of all the 52 accidents reported: NO FATALITY – 1 Canopy destroyed and severe injuries to driver, navigator OK – 1 Canopy hatch destroyed, team near drowned – 1 Canopy driver Fractural damage to the spinal core – 1 K.O. in open boat – Other than that some broken ribs, cuts and bruises.
These figures do not indicate that class 3C is severely dangerous and need drastic measures like immediate implementation of Canopies for all participants. However it is always wise to look at safety measurers that can improve the competitor’s odds against fatalities or severe injuries. In this context I would like to bring forwards the following suggestions:
Make it compulsory to have in the boats logbook the installation date of the windows if it is a Canopy boat. The lifespan for windows of polycarbonate should be limited to two or maximum three years. This material looses its strength without any visual signs. It deteriorates from sunshine, if exposed to fuel gases, paint and lacquer fumes and other dissolvent’s. Further more if the logbook shows that the boat has had a structural repair job and painted afterwards, the windows should be replaced, if not removed when the job was done. Check pictures in logbook.
Work out a detailed description of how to fasten windows in canopies. Resent studies from offshore accidents in the USA shows that windows tend to pop out if water impacts into the cockpit.
Another issue regarding Canopy boats are the hinges and locks for the hatches. The locks are often bent if water impacts the cockpit. And the flange of the opening or the overlay of the hatch must be sufficient, so that there is no risk for the hatch to be jammed.
Make water impact studies based on the angel of the canopy front and sides and define a minimum structural lay-up of the Canopy material. The current text saying; same strength as the running surface is not sufficient. The greatest challenge will be to find a method for policing these demands.
Implement in the pre-race scruteneering Form a section regarding Recue team Cockpit Check out. This is especially important for Canopy boats where technical solutions can differ. Such a drill can save lives. No boat should be allowed to enter the water before the form is signed by a rescue team member and returned to Race Office. This is the individual racing team’s responsibility.
Besides these suggestions I would like to make a remark regarding the increased need for rapid assistance when Canopy boats are participating. Offshore cats may very well end upside down after an incident. The tandem canopies can make it difficult for teammates to assist each other. The buoyancy of the lifejacket creates a problem. Therefore the need for a rescue diver in place within seconds can be very urgent.
This puts a greater demand for helicopters onto the organizers of offshore races, or a greater demand for rescue divers posted in boats all around the course. All of this costs money, and as a consequence of this we may loose organizers. The other way around the problem is to dramatically shorten the courses, so that assistance by rescue boats is more feasible.
Looking forwards to see the input from the other delegates of the Cominoff.
Yours sincerely
Øivind Dreier Sivertsen
“Simon from Norway”
Chairman Offshore Norway
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32051 Frode S den 29. December, 2009 kl. 14:19:07
Got this via Simon. Have a look.
Travelled to Guernsey for 1th race of season 2007, May 26th. Rough Race. Quite windy, outer parts of course. A bit hairy. Coming towards last turn mark, boat running very stable and controlled into wind. Engine set just below 2 on ? Gauge = about 5”” up. Trim just in from level, had been running these settings for most of race, (just changing trim from time to time.)
Feeling relaxed/not tired. Preparing to finish. As we slowed to turn steering wide into turn, I remember the boat steering sharply to the left causing the boat to turn over.
I instantly went for the canopy lid catch (could not reach it!), canopy instantly flooded by the time I had realized what had happened, I had taken 4-5 mouthfuls of water.
Trying to get air, which was attached to my chest, it felt very difficult to move my arms, managed to get air in between coughing I had probably 4-5 breaths of air from regulator. Tried to compose myself.
Lost focus completely on main lid catch (on left). Reached out to pull pins from hinges (on right), in doing this, my arm pulled the air regulator from my mouth (lost the air regulator). At this point, I seemed to been gulping water, trying to breath (panicked). Undid seatbelt, I must have turned around in the seat, thrashing at area to pull hinge pins; I must have pulled pins by pure luck!
Pushing hard on the lid, it felt as if it would not open, I thought I had pulled the rear pin by mistake!
Now really panicking, started pushing very hard on lid, could see the rubber cath stretching, my vision seemed to be fixed on the light from outside, after losing the air there was a point when there was a transition between coughing and gasping to a quite relaxed feeling of breathing water as you would normally air. At this point everything was if in a dream. At this point, I clearly remember thinking “**** you’re going to die”. Then there was a jolt as if suddenly awoken and I seemed to go into overdrive again, trying to get through the gap I had seen whilst staring. I saw the gap between lid and screen (lid was being held from opening by the retaining strap) I just went for the gap, managed to grapple through it.
Pulling on edge of screen(I have measured gap which was 14-15 inches), when outside, relief! The intercom lead stopped me, vision still fixed on light from surface, stupidly tried to undo helmet (but as if I was passing out).
Outside when intercom lead snatched me back, I went back into a stop, floating there underwater staring at the light as if in a dream, I thought I was passing out, again being strangely aware of breathing water. I seemed to drift back, thinking NO! After trying to remove helmet, I ripped intercom lead off. Broke it! Trying to get to surface felt as I was sinking, pulled life jacket to inflate, this popped me to surface (at which time, bow of safety boat hit my chrash helmet). I was pulled ti side RNLI Rib, felt half full of water.
They asked me if I was injured, I said get me the f**k out of here’ (sorry, I was finding it very difficult to breath). When in the boat, they tried to lay me down, but I felt full of water, I got to the side of the Rib and started coughing up water, all the way back to the Harbour side.
I was then taken to ambulance; medic told us we were both close to exposure. Put us in bags to warm us up. Gave me oxygen, which I was kept on for about two hours. They gave me chest X-ray. I could not stop coughing for hours. I was kept in hospital until 9 O’clock that evening (21:00).
I would also like known that there were no divers in attendance at my accident! First diver seen by Mr. Neil Jackson who recovered the boat on Harbour side at Wet Pits.
Reason for difficulty to get out
Catch was positioned too far back, level with my shoulder, combinationof being upside down and shape of canopy, helmet and padding on roll bar restricted movement to release catch.
• I have repositioned cathes to be in front of line of vision. Cathes will have a background of fluorescent yellow for easier visibility (water activated lights will be positioned as close to catch as possible). Hinge pin pull will also have yellow background. Retaining strap will be detached (repositioned) when lid fixed down (longer air lines have been fitted).
• DUNK TEST – From my experience, I feel the Andark Test is totally useless for helping racers to exit boats (as a safety test). Being in a large box, very slow overturn, easy exit and warm water is totally unrealistic.
• I feel that the 2006 Dunk Test at RNLI premises in Poole were much more realistic, with confined capsule, turning very quickly in very cold water. I do think the RYA should be organising the Dunk Test in this more realistic situation as in 2006. (As the Dunk Test is a condition of our RYA license.)
I would like it known and my thanks go to:
• Mr. Neil Jackson who was racing with Gordon Comotion, but at the incident dived into to try and get me out (and recovered boat to harbour). Neil’s comment, first diver I saw was on the Pontoon in marina.
• Mr. Pete Little was also on his way to help as he could clearly see there were no divers in the area (also for listening).
Summarry – Ideas
Would it be sensible, following my experience;
• For canopy boats to have more than one way of opening the canopy lid (i.e., lid latch and pull hinges)
• Easy access to o0pening system
• HI V12. Areas to focus attention (lights next to catches)
• Air hose long enough to allow crew to stand up in seat (Velcro band to stop air getting away).
• Easy accessible/removal able air bottles to help other racers (in incident)
• Comments from Pete Little: “Those hinges saved our bacon” He tells me I was underwater for at least 2 minutes while talking over after-effects, he commented, I had too much time to think which was true. (impacting with the Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder).
• Comments whilst talking to other people, for example, Chris Bryan and Angelo Bianchini: “Divers will get you out won’t they???” NO
• Would it not be sensible for open boats to carry a spare air system and face mask to help each other or other racers in a trapped-boat-sinking incident?
• Would it not be sensible to have a pre-determined diver movement plan relating to the race course with divers being at the finish (sweeping in)?
The after effects
A. Breathing after coughing for about 1-2 hours it was very difficult not to start again without a air mask.
B. Headache directly after accident which continued while in Guernsey on and off.
C. Headaches continued during the following week, while trying to be relaxed about it.
D. Went to doctor after about 10 days about the very bad headaches. He said I had Post Traunatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). I was experiencing a continual day time replay of the effects to escape. I was told headaches were due to thoughts in my sub conscious. (I attended counselling between July 07 to Feb 08).
E. The replay situations continued until mid Aug when they suddenly seemed to dramatically reduce after a test day in the boat, prior to Littlehampton.
F. It has taken me until early 08 to return to normal frame of mind.
G. I did my Dunk Test ready to race in Italy nervously, but with no problem.
H. First race in Italy was good. Another big move forward.
32059 Carl Ogden den 29. December, 2009 kl. 21:53:56
To Simon re: UK Dunk Test
Hi Simon,
There are 2 organisations that run Dunk Tests in the UK. One is as you state, Andark. The other is ourselves – Osprey Powerboat Rescue Team.
Our Dunk Test rig and procedures have been adopted by the RYA and UIM and we have to ensure that all F1 Drivers pass our Dunk Test, even if they have a valid test by their National Authority, they must pass ours!
We’ve been running our tests for both Inshore and Offshore classes for well over 15 years! We used to perform tests at the RYA Awards Ceremony but the hotel that is used has closed their pool and due to lack of tests, it has been uneconomical to run tests in the Bournemouth area.
Our Offshore Dunk Rig has been designed larger than the Inshore Rig (both built by Dave Burgess or Burgess Boats). The Offshore Rig has also been designed that you need to extract yourself out of a role cage, which looks more like a large offshore raceboat, whereas the Inshore Dunk Rig is based on an F2 Inshore Safety Cell.
I’d suggest that you come to our Dunk Tests being run primarily at Cannock Chase near Birmingham. We’re more than happy to spend time discussing and helping you gain confidence in being upside down, under water, trapped in a cell, all being in a safe and controlled environment.
Please visit our Immersion Page on our website at http://www.ospreyrescue.com/immersion testing.html and take a look at what we do!
Should you wish any further help or information, please contact me by email and I will help you wherever possible.
Kind Regards,
Carl Ogden,
Osprey Powerboat Rescue Team.
35028 PJ den 12. January, 2010 kl. 22:47:13
From where did you get the statitics?
Im thinking about the Swedish once, very old or did someone just tune the numbers?
I havent read it all yet, i will do that tomorrow its to late now. I’ll check back.
I thought this was very well written so I moved it here.
pat W
Extracts from the Reports given on Class 3C from Simon
Belgium
Over the last 6 years an overall amount of 15 boats, but low turn out at races, the total number of accidents is 0 and thereby 0 injuries.
Finland
Over the last 5 years and 123 starts, the total number of accidents is 4 (3 open/1 Canopy). Of the 3 open boat accidents: No personal injuries. Of the Canopy accident: No personal injuries.
France
Over the last 5 years and 295 starts, the total number of accidents is 0.
Great Britain
Over the last 6 years and 961 starts, the total number of accidents is 15 (11 open/4 Canopy). Of the 11 open boat accidents: 1 KO, 1 Fractured ribs, 1 Jarred neck and the rest minor cuts and bruises. Of the 4 Canopy accidents: 1 Near drowning and the rest no severe injuries.
Italy
Over the last 5 years and 394 starts, the total number of accidents is 12 (2 open/10 Canopy). Of the 2 open boat accidents: No personal injuries. Of the 10 Canopy accidents: No personal injuries.
Norway
Over the last 7 years and 294 starts, the total number of accidents is 12 (4 open/8 Canopy). Of the 4 open boat accidents: 1 shoulder dislocated and the rest minor cuts and bruises. Of the 8 Canopy accidents: 1 Fractural damage to the spinal core, 1 Canopy broken and severe injuries in face, jaw broken in several places and a number of teeth lost, and in addition a fraction of the scull broke loose in the back of the head. The other accidents gave only minor cuts and bruises.
Sweden
Over the last 5 years and 196 starts, the total number of accidents is 9 (4 open/5 Canopy). Of the 4 open boat accidents: 1 fractured rib, and the rest minor cuts and bruises. Of the 5 Canopy accidents: No injuries
Conclusion
Over the last 5 – 7 years and 2263 starts, the total number of accidents is 52 (24 open/28 Canopy). Of all the 52 accidents reported: NO FATALITY – 1 Canopy destroyed and severe injuries to driver, navigator OK – 1 Canopy hatch destroyed, team near drowned – 1 Canopy driver Fractural damage to the spinal core – 1 K.O. in open boat – Other than that some broken ribs, cuts and bruises.
These figures do not indicate that class 3C is severely dangerous and need drastic measures like immediate implementation of Canopies for all participants. However it is always wise to look at safety measurers that can improve the competitor’s odds against fatalities or severe injuries. In this context I would like to bring forwards the following suggestions:
Make it compulsory to have in the boats logbook the installation date of the windows if it is a Canopy boat. The lifespan for windows of polycarbonate should be limited to two or maximum three years. This material looses its strength without any visual signs. It deteriorates from sunshine, if exposed to fuel gases, paint and lacquer fumes and other dissolvent’s. Further more if the logbook shows that the boat has had a structural repair job and painted afterwards, the windows should be replaced, if not removed when the job was done. Check pictures in logbook.
Work out a detailed description of how to fasten windows in canopies. Resent studies from offshore accidents in the USA shows that windows tend to pop out if water impacts into the cockpit.
Another issue regarding Canopy boats are the hinges and locks for the hatches. The locks are often bent if water impacts the cockpit. And the flange of the opening or the overlay of the hatch must be sufficient, so that there is no risk for the hatch to be jammed.
Make water impact studies based on the angel of the canopy front and sides and define a minimum structural lay-up of the Canopy material. The current text saying; same strength as the running surface is not sufficient. The greatest challenge will be to find a method for policing these demands.
Implement in the pre-race scruteneering Form a section regarding Recue team Cockpit Check out. This is especially important for Canopy boats where technical solutions can differ. Such a drill can save lives. No boat should be allowed to enter the water before the form is signed by a rescue team member and returned to Race Office. This is the individual racing team’s responsibility.
Besides these suggestions I would like to make a remark regarding the increased need for rapid assistance when Canopy boats are participating. Offshore cats may very well end upside down after an incident. The tandem canopies can make it difficult for teammates to assist each other. The buoyancy of the lifejacket creates a problem. Therefore the need for a rescue diver in place within seconds can be very urgent.
This puts a greater demand for helicopters onto the organizers of offshore races, or a greater demand for rescue divers posted in boats all around the course. All of this costs money, and as a consequence of this we may loose organizers. The other way around the problem is to dramatically shorten the courses, so that assistance by rescue boats is more feasible.
Looking forwards to see the input from the other delegates of the Cominoff.
Yours sincerely
Øivind Dreier Sivertsen
“Simon from Norway”
Chairman Offshore Norway
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Del dette innlegget!
« If we can´t race on water, we race on SnoW..Angel »
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32051 Frode S den 29. December, 2009 kl. 14:19:07
Got this via Simon. Have a look.
Travelled to Guernsey for 1th race of season 2007, May 26th. Rough Race. Quite windy, outer parts of course. A bit hairy. Coming towards last turn mark, boat running very stable and controlled into wind. Engine set just below 2 on ? Gauge = about 5”” up. Trim just in from level, had been running these settings for most of race, (just changing trim from time to time.)
Feeling relaxed/not tired. Preparing to finish. As we slowed to turn steering wide into turn, I remember the boat steering sharply to the left causing the boat to turn over.
I instantly went for the canopy lid catch (could not reach it!), canopy instantly flooded by the time I had realized what had happened, I had taken 4-5 mouthfuls of water.
Trying to get air, which was attached to my chest, it felt very difficult to move my arms, managed to get air in between coughing I had probably 4-5 breaths of air from regulator. Tried to compose myself.
Lost focus completely on main lid catch (on left). Reached out to pull pins from hinges (on right), in doing this, my arm pulled the air regulator from my mouth (lost the air regulator). At this point, I seemed to been gulping water, trying to breath (panicked). Undid seatbelt, I must have turned around in the seat, thrashing at area to pull hinge pins; I must have pulled pins by pure luck!
Pushing hard on the lid, it felt as if it would not open, I thought I had pulled the rear pin by mistake!
Now really panicking, started pushing very hard on lid, could see the rubber cath stretching, my vision seemed to be fixed on the light from outside, after losing the air there was a point when there was a transition between coughing and gasping to a quite relaxed feeling of breathing water as you would normally air. At this point everything was if in a dream. At this point, I clearly remember thinking “**** you’re going to die”. Then there was a jolt as if suddenly awoken and I seemed to go into overdrive again, trying to get through the gap I had seen whilst staring. I saw the gap between lid and screen (lid was being held from opening by the retaining strap) I just went for the gap, managed to grapple through it.
Pulling on edge of screen(I have measured gap which was 14-15 inches), when outside, relief! The intercom lead stopped me, vision still fixed on light from surface, stupidly tried to undo helmet (but as if I was passing out).
Outside when intercom lead snatched me back, I went back into a stop, floating there underwater staring at the light as if in a dream, I thought I was passing out, again being strangely aware of breathing water. I seemed to drift back, thinking NO! After trying to remove helmet, I ripped intercom lead off. Broke it! Trying to get to surface felt as I was sinking, pulled life jacket to inflate, this popped me to surface (at which time, bow of safety boat hit my chrash helmet). I was pulled ti side RNLI Rib, felt half full of water.
They asked me if I was injured, I said get me the f**k out of here’ (sorry, I was finding it very difficult to breath). When in the boat, they tried to lay me down, but I felt full of water, I got to the side of the Rib and started coughing up water, all the way back to the Harbour side.
I was then taken to ambulance; medic told us we were both close to exposure. Put us in bags to warm us up. Gave me oxygen, which I was kept on for about two hours. They gave me chest X-ray. I could not stop coughing for hours. I was kept in hospital until 9 O’clock that evening (21:00).
I would also like known that there were no divers in attendance at my accident! First diver seen by Mr. Neil Jackson who recovered the boat on Harbour side at Wet Pits.
Reason for difficulty to get out
Catch was positioned too far back, level with my shoulder, combinationof being upside down and shape of canopy, helmet and padding on roll bar restricted movement to release catch.
• I have repositioned cathes to be in front of line of vision. Cathes will have a background of fluorescent yellow for easier visibility (water activated lights will be positioned as close to catch as possible). Hinge pin pull will also have yellow background. Retaining strap will be detached (repositioned) when lid fixed down (longer air lines have been fitted).
• DUNK TEST – From my experience, I feel the Andark Test is totally useless for helping racers to exit boats (as a safety test). Being in a large box, very slow overturn, easy exit and warm water is totally unrealistic.
• I feel that the 2006 Dunk Test at RNLI premises in Poole were much more realistic, with confined capsule, turning very quickly in very cold water. I do think the RYA should be organising the Dunk Test in this more realistic situation as in 2006. (As the Dunk Test is a condition of our RYA license.)
I would like it known and my thanks go to:
• Mr. Neil Jackson who was racing with Gordon Comotion, but at the incident dived into to try and get me out (and recovered boat to harbour). Neil’s comment, first diver I saw was on the Pontoon in marina.
• Mr. Pete Little was also on his way to help as he could clearly see there were no divers in the area (also for listening).
Summarry – Ideas
Would it be sensible, following my experience;
• For canopy boats to have more than one way of opening the canopy lid (i.e., lid latch and pull hinges)
• Easy access to o0pening system
• HI V12. Areas to focus attention (lights next to catches)
• Air hose long enough to allow crew to stand up in seat (Velcro band to stop air getting away).
• Easy accessible/removal able air bottles to help other racers (in incident)
• Comments from Pete Little: “Those hinges saved our bacon” He tells me I was underwater for at least 2 minutes while talking over after-effects, he commented, I had too much time to think which was true. (impacting with the Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder).
• Comments whilst talking to other people, for example, Chris Bryan and Angelo Bianchini: “Divers will get you out won’t they???” NO
• Would it not be sensible for open boats to carry a spare air system and face mask to help each other or other racers in a trapped-boat-sinking incident?
• Would it not be sensible to have a pre-determined diver movement plan relating to the race course with divers being at the finish (sweeping in)?
The after effects
A. Breathing after coughing for about 1-2 hours it was very difficult not to start again without a air mask.
B. Headache directly after accident which continued while in Guernsey on and off.
C. Headaches continued during the following week, while trying to be relaxed about it.
D. Went to doctor after about 10 days about the very bad headaches. He said I had Post Traunatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). I was experiencing a continual day time replay of the effects to escape. I was told headaches were due to thoughts in my sub conscious. (I attended counselling between July 07 to Feb 08).
E. The replay situations continued until mid Aug when they suddenly seemed to dramatically reduce after a test day in the boat, prior to Littlehampton.
F. It has taken me until early 08 to return to normal frame of mind.
G. I did my Dunk Test ready to race in Italy nervously, but with no problem.
H. First race in Italy was good. Another big move forward.
32059 Carl Ogden den 29. December, 2009 kl. 21:53:56
To Simon re: UK Dunk Test
Hi Simon,
There are 2 organisations that run Dunk Tests in the UK. One is as you state, Andark. The other is ourselves – Osprey Powerboat Rescue Team.
Our Dunk Test rig and procedures have been adopted by the RYA and UIM and we have to ensure that all F1 Drivers pass our Dunk Test, even if they have a valid test by their National Authority, they must pass ours!
We’ve been running our tests for both Inshore and Offshore classes for well over 15 years! We used to perform tests at the RYA Awards Ceremony but the hotel that is used has closed their pool and due to lack of tests, it has been uneconomical to run tests in the Bournemouth area.
Our Offshore Dunk Rig has been designed larger than the Inshore Rig (both built by Dave Burgess or Burgess Boats). The Offshore Rig has also been designed that you need to extract yourself out of a role cage, which looks more like a large offshore raceboat, whereas the Inshore Dunk Rig is based on an F2 Inshore Safety Cell.
I’d suggest that you come to our Dunk Tests being run primarily at Cannock Chase near Birmingham. We’re more than happy to spend time discussing and helping you gain confidence in being upside down, under water, trapped in a cell, all being in a safe and controlled environment.
Please visit our Immersion Page on our website at http://www.ospreyrescue.com/immersion testing.html and take a look at what we do!
Should you wish any further help or information, please contact me by email and I will help you wherever possible.
Kind Regards,
Carl Ogden,
Osprey Powerboat Rescue Team.
35028 PJ den 12. January, 2010 kl. 22:47:13
From where did you get the statitics?
Im thinking about the Swedish once, very old or did someone just tune the numbers?
I havent read it all yet, i will do that tomorrow its to late now. I’ll check back.
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