Performace boat loans!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WMF]

His avatar ain't nothing.
Rob can achieve scary all on his own.

Anyway... it bums me out.... because I was one of those business owners who always paid the bills and had cash flow. But I can't disagree with Nick.
Although I do see credit loosening up at some point. Cash has always been king. But making credit available to an economy just plain allows more people to participate in that economy. I never expected most people to have sympathy for my hobby. When the government owns the banks they can control society by what they allow credit to be used for (at least among the tier below the uber-wealthy.)
In the long run... this will help the used market and classic offshores, because many will be able to trade in the used world. You can buy an old offshore for cheap and then pay the cost of maintenance over time rather than paying a note. A guy with even 30k in cash can go buy a great hull and then bring it back over a couple of years. You can finance blocks, rotating assemblies, heads, and cams. You can buy a carb. Bilge pump. Adds up of course. But with cash flow and delayed projects... end result is good, fast boating.
Sucks for a guy like Bill (WMF) who currently prefers a newer more turnkey boat right now, and is willing to make a big payment to get in a fairly new boat. In the interest of fuill disclosure, I bought Bill's boat in October and I feel a little guilty that he is having trouble replacing it right now.
Bill:
Maybe the restore plan isn't so bad. You probably wanted something a little bigger than the 28, with your family... but if you find a nice 31 or 35 cig, needs power... I know that you can get good help here and be able to build some big power reasonably.

Dont worry John, I dont regret selling you the Apache. It wasnt for me, I just cant believe how boat loans have changed over the past year!!!

 

[OldSchool]

and for the "pot meet kettle" comment that was posted then removed...whatever... I have never asked for anything that I haven't earned or worked for. That includes taking chances to build 2 companies from scratch.

That was me and I was just joking. I removed it because after reading it, I didn't want to leave you guys open to potshots. It didn't read the way that I meant it to sound.

 

[WMF]

Aaaaaaah....intelligent thinking....nice for a change.


The loans are there. You have to prove Stability, Ability and Willingness to repay any loan. A boat loan requires a couple more things to be proven. What I have noticed from recent experience is that no matter how high your score or how much income you have, if you are debt loaded out the yang, you are in for a challenge.

The Performance Boat Industry is going NOWHERE. (you heard it here first.)

I hope you are right Frankie!!!!! I really dont want to get into my personal details, but I can tell you banks really dont want to lend to anyone right now!!!! and it is going to get worse!!!

 

[Slandrew]

I say make your deal and give the buyer 0% .That should move product with large down payment!I'm shure they pay % on floor plans!

 

[HPOffshore]

I say make your deal and give the buyer 0% .That should move product with large down payment!I'm shure they pay % on floor plans!

Real floor plan institutions/banks prohibit transfer-of-ownership without payment in-full; and no retail marine sales business has the mass capital to put $ out on the street in any kind of meaningful volume...maybe on one or two boats, but not on a large scale.

 

[Davidmnc]

Real floor plan institutions/banks prohibit transfer-of-ownership without payment in-full; and no retail marine sales business has the mass capital to put $ out on the street in any kind of meaningful volume...maybe on one or two boats, but not on a large scale.

In the RV world the floor plan banks have gotten so tight on dealers there is NO WAY you are gonna do any thing put pay them in full as soon as the unit is sold. They are now even holding some of the MSOs until the units are paid off. There are so many dealers out of trust, and the banks are loosing so much money on dealers going out of business they have taken the stand to trust no one. Not eve dealers who have never been behind on interest or curtailments. It's a tough world today my friends!

But there are banks out there loaning money. I.E. U.S. Bank, and Bank of the West. But you must be qualified to borrow!

 

[Tony]

It really depends on the bank. My bank is relatively small, 11 locations throughout the state and their parent Corp. has an additional few dozzen scattered around OH, and IN. I talked to the Pres of commercial lending this A.M. and he says that they are financially stronger than they ever have been in the past. Then never got into the mortgage B.S. and aside from used car loans and a few in house real estate loans they arent really tightening the noose on their lending requirements.

 

[RLJ676]

Check credit unions. Most of them didn't mess with all the risky mortgage stuff and are loaning right now.

We'll see how my app goes when they get back to me tomorow.:ack2:

 

[drpete3]

So how are things today? Is anyone able to get money to buy a boat this fall? Im planning on pulling the trigger maybe in the spring but this will be the first time I have ever had a boat payment. Some of my reseach also suggests I may not be able to buy a boat that is more than 7 years old. Is that true?

 

[Magic Medicine]

Citizens bank in Michigan is loaning with 10-20% down depending on what you are buying

 

[drpete3]

Citizens bank in Michigan is loaning with 10-20% down depending on water you are buying

Ok what about the age of the boat? I hope I could get a loan on a 10 year old boat

 

[JupiterSunsation]

Bill-WMF not to totally derail this (since you got the loan already) but have you seen the "no lending" thing in your business also? Are lenders slashing exposure on everything from jet skiis to mega yachts or just singling out the performance boats?

 

[Magic Medicine]

Ok what about the age of the boat? I hope I could get a loan on a 10 year old boat

my buddy just bought a 99 312 Formula through them

 

[RLJ676]

So how are things today? Is anyone able to get money to buy a boat this fall? Im planning on pulling the trigger maybe in the spring but this will be the first time I have ever had a boat payment. Some of my reseach also suggests I may not be able to buy a boat that is more than 7 years old. Is that true?

I bought a 96 this year at Michigan First CU with basically 0 down and a decent rate (6.9 I think).

I looked around a ton, and most places would not want to do older boats, but they all differ on what they call older.

 

[Pro1]

Banks are not lending people money for performance boats and when they get done taking inventory back from dealers would that make it better?

My buddy has made several offers on a high end boat. The builder had a number of boats that were built and not sold. All the offers were turned down. Not by much but his attitude is why should I go up. Especially when I am the only on bidding. He has the time and the money.

This is not good for anyone or this industry.

 

[chrisk]

if you shop around you can still find banks that are willing to lend, even on older performance boats!

 

[WMF]

Bill-WMF not to totally derail this (since you got the loan already) but have you seen the "no lending" thing in your business also? Are lenders slashing exposure on everything from jet skiis to mega yachts or just singling out the performance boats?

In My business ( wich is PWC, and Jetboat sale's and service) almost 95% of buyers buy with cash!!! very few loans!! Sales this year have been off, but I have not pushed sales this year, I pushed service. We sold around 75 ski's so far this year!! I sold 5 last weekend!! I push sales in the off months. My service business is up 50% over last year at the same time!

 

[DaveP]

Folks it's real easy to bash the banks but as long as they are experiencing heavy losses there is no incentive to loan money.

For years, if you loaned someone money (say for a boat) that had a 690, 675 or 650 credit score the chance of that loan going bad was pretty high based on historical data.

For people who had 750-800 credit scores....almost never did those loans go bad unless the person died.

Today, loans are going bad for people who had 750-800 credit scores when they originally obtained their boat loans. These people had great income, great job stability but today have either lost their jobs (owned a Saturn or Chrysler/Dodge dealer perhaps, worked for Lehman Brothers, etc..) and have defaulted on their loans.

So, in this environment you have to be part credit officer, part fortune teller and part genie to lend someone money today. So.......now today banks want to see abviously great score but they also want to see lower debt to income (used to me 50-52% max now it is 40-42%), they want to see LIQUID assets that can be used to pay the bills for a significant period of time if you loose your employment and they want to see low credit card debt.

The days of people buying boats with $10k in the bank, 50% DTI and $30k in credit card debt are long gone. Truth be told, many of those people had no business owning a boat or other toys that they have (RV, Bourgette motorcycle, sports car, etc...)

Being in banking and boat lending I do believe that the banks to need to loosen up a little but as long has steep losses are rolling in every month no one has a leg to stand on in that argument.

 

[tommymonza]

The banks have lost their minds. My inlaws had their monthly revolving credit card thru American Express shut off just recently. No warning -no explanation just gone.So much for the utilities and insurance and all the other stuff they pay monthly that is set up to prepay, They have their money in Euros and just pay the balance each month in the US as betting against the dollar is good bet these days.

The Swiss people i work for wrote me a fat check last week out of a Bank of America account that they pay me personaly when they are in town. I deposited it and wrote checks against it.Suddenly i get notices from everybody that my checks are bouncing.I go to the bank and they say the account does not exist.

So i give my Swiss peeps a calll and inform them of this, he says impossible there is 400 grand in there. So he goes online to check his personal U.S. Bank of America account and he sees that it does not exist anymore either. He calls the bank and they tell him that it looks like fraud and somebody took his money. So he is in town at this point and goes to the bank. After sitting for 2 hours he is informed that they closed his account since he is not a U.S. resident and he is not allowed to have that account anymore. No warning -No letter_ No phone call. He was ****ed.

Another thing I have never been able to see clearly is why the banks are so hard on stated income business owners.If a business owner loses a client he goes and finds a new one and is most likely more in touch with the economy and what turns it is taking.
But the guy working for someone making a hundred grand a year can buy anything and when he loses his job he is in the fetal position trying to roll off the 3rd floor of his half million dollar house onto the hood of his BMW he is up to his eyeballs on.

 

[tommymonza]

You cannot type P.I.S.S.E.D. on this forum ?