Cat insurance in trouble

[Ratickle]

that's a great way to advertise

That's exactly what I was thinking...someone with an agenda.

I agree with him to a large extent. If a inexperienced boater is given a policy to cover a boat without any research by the policy writer, chances are that boater is a multitude of times more likely to be in an accident.

There is a reason you can't drive a car without a license and training and testing. Boats should have the same restrictions. Then, all insurance would be less expensive because there would be less claims.

 

[sellsman11]

Tres' agenda is a good one. Maybe his way of putting it is a little aggressive but the instruction that he and Brad offer is invaluable for someone into performance boats.

 

[ApachePete]

Do these policies have a $1 million Liability limit?

If so, that's MUCH too little, IMO.

An accident that results in a death will result in claims many times that amount.

Can Personal Umbrella Liability policies provide coverag on top of the boat policy liability limit?

 

[THEJOKER]

That's exactly what I was thinking...someone with an agenda.

I'd rather debate the agenda alive than be silent at 6 ft under. Tres knows his stuff and has helped alot of people get insurance that would of been denied.

 

[gatorone]

Do these policies have a $1 million Liability limit?

If so, that's MUCH too little, IMO.

An accident that results in a death will result in claims many times that amount.

Can Personal Umbrella Liability policies provide coverag on top of the boat policy liability limit?

Put the boat in a llc

 

[nortech4play]

Put the boat in a llc

I suppose that would work but most of the policies I've seen or had specifically exclude commercial use of the vessel...

How would putting the boat in an LLC eliminate this requirement since that's an commercial corporation?

Just asking it sounds like a good way to get the additional umbrella coverage that seems to be difficult to get on the personal side..

 

[gatorone]

I suppose that would work but most of the policies I've seen or had specifically exclude commercial use of the vessel...

How would putting the boat in an LLC eliminate this requirement since that's an commercial corporation?

Just asking it sounds like a good way to get the additional umbrella coverage that seems to be difficult to get on the personal side..

single asset llc just for the sole purpose of owning the boat...very common...saved me:sifone:

 

[gatorone]

the higher coverage the more they chase you

 

[nortech4play]

single asset llc just for the sole purpose of owning the boat...very common...saved me:sifone:

thanks it's definitely something to look into...

 

[Ratickle]

the higher coverage the more they chase you

That is true, but the more money your insurance company is willing to spend to fight also......

 

[DaveP]

The ony two insurance companies are the two you mentioned, neither will write cats over 130 mph. Anything above those speeds is uninsureable. This is what the agent and carrier stated. It is even written on the policy.

Ummmmmmmmmm not totally true.

Markell will write boats over 130mph.

American Reliable will not.

 

[Sunsation96]

that's a great way to advertise

That's exactly what I was thinking...someone with an agenda.

Maybe not a agenda not looking for a debate but maybe Tres is sick of seeing good people die on the water because of mistakes that proper training could of prevented but all the training in the world can prevent some things that may happen on the water....

 

[MikeyFIN]

The MYTH that cats are more dangerous than vees always gives me a chuckle. A big cat is much safer than a vee at high speed. I will never again go in a vee over 120 mph. I'll go 120+ in a big cat any day.

The idea that you need to have race experience to run a cat is crazy. The fact of the matter is that most boaters start in vees. If they wish to become cat owners, thy need to make a transition. This should be made with maturity, knowledge and respect. If the dealer who sells them the boat does their job correctly, the new cat owner should operate the boat safely. If the owner does not operate the boat with maturity, knowledge and respect, it is not the boat's fault.

There are plenty of racers whom I would never get in a boat with. We are pleasure boaters who safely operate pleasure boats. If a pleasure boater operates a pleasure cat with maturity, knowledge and respect, there should be no problems. If they do not operate the boat with maturity, knowledge and respect, the fast vee hull will "BITE BACK" just as hard, if not harder than the cat.

For your Info I Race Cats in U.I.M.
The one I´m most safe in is a 24 foot canopycat at triple digits and 1800 lbs.
And I started my career in racing dinghys sailing with some national success.

I stand behind what I say and we got the proof of at least 2 F-U´s with brand new 36 Nor Techs and nothing but fat lazy asses behind the wheel that can´t even read the dials at speed...just worthless guys.
So no fast boat experience to speak of at racing speeds or any motorsport whatsoever.

Go to Tres AT LEAST so you´ll learn th basics cause Cat´s still bite back when gone wrong and if you ain´t strapped and in a Canopy goodbye to your dearest.

Regarding how a Vee will bite back, if you never run it 100% before just been pleasure boating I have first hand experience of with a guy having a brand new Fountain who I talked over to do one race. I´m lucky I´m still walking...

I understand insurance companies take their stand.

Would you let a guy without a CDL with a Big Rig on mountain ice, the risks are equal if the guy gets the rig even moving.

 

[MikeyFIN]

Famous last words of many who went in the drink or not around to post anymore. Learn to drive by accident.Who ever wrote your policy is respomsible for ever rising rates.:cuss:

+1
Sad but True.

And don´t we have enough examples ?

 

[catastrophe]

).You must know there is more to the picture than what meets the eye. Proper recovery,,signs of trouble before it takes over, very controlled processes that remove the element of danger. Understanding the displacement values and Hydrostatic PSI, along with weight changes and the forces under the hull and tunnel are very important to know about when operating any High speed vessel.This thread shows many would rather purchase and proceed to go to the water, and take risk, over knowledge. This is why the rates are high and will get worse.

I hear ya .
And I say to those that question you having an agenda. " Whats the matter with having an agenda"

When I switched to a cat I had someone teach me.

But there is more to all this.
Anyone that has the financial wherewithall to spend 700k after tax dollars on a boat cant be stupid.
For the most part they are sharing the boat with family and friends and should be acting accordingly.
Personal responsibility is the first line of defence.
Hopefully people arent learning to be safe to save money on their insurance premium and are doing it to not be dead.

I have a friend who has a teenage kid that has a bike. He hops from one picnic table to the other on it and I've seen him ride along a hand railing with it. His brother has the exact same bike and he rides it on the sidewalk.
You dont have to drive 150 mph just cuz the boats capable of it.
You should operate it to the limits of your ability.

Buying a small cat and then trading to a larger one is like trying to learn how to ride an elephant by buying a pony. If you do that too often you'll never get a big cat anyway because you are blowing 100k minimum on each trade.

Driving instruction from someone experienced as you go faster is a must.

 

[TIKI]

proper training could of prevented ....

and who does said "proper training".....hence my point. I'm all for training and taking classes, just tired of Tres' doom and gloom everytime the subject is brought up....seems like he has classes to fill.

 

[MikeyFIN]

Larry Smith said a while ago that he refuses to design a pleasureboat that goes over the 70´s therefore no steps and sofort.

And yes At Speed Cats do and are safer up to a point...but turning one at high speed properly takes a lot.

 

[MikeyFIN]

and who does said "proper training".....hence my point. I'm all for training and taking classes, just tired of Tres' doom and gloom everytime the subject is brought up....seems like he has classes to fill.

If HE DOES isn´t that a sign of stupidity...

* Ignorance is a Bliss until you know...

 

[GENERAL LEE]

My boat is covered under Markels' Ultra High Performance policy. I do a Nov 1-April 1 layup, so the price I pay isn't bad I don't think?

I don't know why people wanting a Cat for the first time, try to avoid taking Tres' class like the plague? It's a good time, interesting, and it REALLY tells the insurance gods that you're serious about knowing what's up out there. One of the bigger factors with the insurance guys, is the fact they need to feel as comfortable as possible about your skills on the water, and that you are serious enough about it to take the neccessary steps to earn their trust. It just doesn't look good to them to have a guy that refuses, or tries to get around their requirements to obtain insurance. Or, a guy that has somehow gotten around the steps, but whines about how much MORE he's paying that someone that didn't.

There's nothing wrong with starting with a 100mph Cat either! They are fun as hell at ANY speed, and you can juice it up after you earn your "stripes" with the insurance guys!:driving:

 

[gerritm]

You spend 500K -700K on a cat and can't see spending 3K on learning the dynamics and intricances of the vessel. Doesn't make any sense to me. I bought my 85 mph stepped V-hull, had never driven one and went to Tres's classe to learn how to drive it. He design's the class to your boat and driving level. Money well spent.