The Great Unification

[Ratickle]

I would love to have 6's, but they do not fit in my hull. You need to cut the transom extension off and rework a lot of the engine bay. I would imagine that with 525s and 6s you would never need to lift the throttles.

I would think a warmed 525 and 6's would be pretty much good for two or three seasons with no work at all other than normal upkeep.

The initial expense has got to be an additional 20k plus.....(Good used).

 

[Sean Stinson]

As it would appear after the weekend the spec racer's still have a home called OSS, along with some pro-am teams good time was had by all. Joint races might pave the way for more unity and larger boat counts!

That's what I heard Jimmy told me he had a great time especially running with Martin!!!!

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

That's what I heard Jimmy told me he had a great time especially running with Martin!!!!

It was the first time a had bracket raced. We were going as fast as we could in an 85 bracket. Martin was racing against us in the turns and the stop watch in the straights. It was fun because we did about 20 of the 24 turns side by side.. HE hosed us once good and forced us through his wake. I saw 88 in the straights 82ish in the south turn wide open and 60's and 70's in the north turn. Martin showed our average at 83 something and we finished with in his boat length.

It was a great warm up for Sunday. It was the most fun I had all season.

 

[Ratickle]

It was the first time a had bracket raced. We were going as fast as we could in an 85 bracket. Martin was racing against us in the turns and the stop watch in the straights. It was fun because we did about 20 of the 24 turns side by side.. HE hosed us once good and forced us through his wake. I saw 88 in the straights 82ish in the south turn wide open and 60's and 70's in the north turn. Martin showed our average at 83 something and we finished with in his boat length.

It was a great warm up for Sunday. It was the most fun I had all season.

A long-time professional racer saying Brackets are fun..... I love it.....:sifone: :26: :sifone:

They are fun by the way.....

 

[2TR]

I would imagine that with 525s and 6s you would never need to lift the throttles.

And in this post we find your problem.. :rofl:

 

[Dunbar 104]

Yeah Saturday was a ball. The ave lap speed is fun because in a v lite there was no way anyone would break out. We ran our boat 100% trying to get between Jimmy and Martin. 3 v lites, a SV, a 42 poker run with 600s, with Bob running the throttles, a 38 fountain with 525s. Other than the SV the boats were pretty well matched speed wise. And Pro am did what it was designed for. There is some new blood looking at buying race boats. There were some guys that just bought a 42 poker run a few days before and racing in Pro am, and are now looking at a true race boat. I hope a SVL.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The credit goes to Martin. He could have choose to run a few boat lengths ahead. Rather he choose the fun route side by side. He could pull us at any moment he choose. We also ran amazingly close in the turns. Trusting each other and knowing each others limitations was a big part of it.

After all that being said It was a BLAST.

 

[skaterdave]

Dave,
Sometimes it better for a class and therefore the Org to better match up the boats. By creating SV in OPA we now have a premier spec class of nearly identical boats. C2 is still a class in OPA if the boats show and the TKO crew is always welcome with open arms at OPA. We do miss them. The Bandit boat was sold so they could buy the Bad Boy Bandit and race SV.

105 is 105 absolutely, but why would you race if you didn't have a "first place boat"? I don't believe any of us are there to be paying boat count. Moving all the 525s SVs to C3 would have killed C3 and most likely C4 when the C3 boats moved down. Placing boats in their proper classes has always been one of the key points of sucess in OPA.

dean, no offense, but the arguement of not having a "first place boat" is the whole problem with offshore racing. everyone wants a first place boat so it seems that every year theres more classes and less boats, hence more "first place boats". my comment wasn't to be de-grading but to put things in to perspective. a wise man told my that he'd rather race 6-8 boats and take a 3rd place finish than a first agianst 2 boats???? imagine in everyone in nascar won't go out there and race if they couldn't win. even the top few guys know that sometimes they have a top five car and understand that.



like i said i understand the reason, but think there might have been other ways to keep all the boats in P2.

if theres so much concern about parity in P class racing, whats with letting wicked (a supercat), that 46 skater run agianst 30' open cat?

if anyone should be *****ing it should be those guys. how do you run a 40 or 46 skater agianst a 30 footer. but the rules say 115 so its 115 in P1. and like i mentioned above, if i was able to race this year, i know that theres certain races that i have a good shot of winning - patchgue, st clair those ones with flatter water. places like OC or point pleasent i'm going to get my ass handed to me running against a 40 or 46. you have to know when to save the equipment for the days when you need it.

 

[Ratickle]

And in this post we find your problem.. :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


I spit some coffee there bud......

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

There used to be a rule If you qualify for more than one class you run the upper. The discussion in class racing should include something similar. Also something to address the "spirit" of the rules. The overpowered boats test the spirit IMO and may have a negative effect in the end.

Sorry, I have no skin in that game. Just an observation.

I knew there was no way in hell I could have beat the 42. That didn't keep me from trying. That is what made it so fun. We were the under dog. And he was willing to play.



On the flip side. George and I spent all season chasing down the 104 boat. We raced in every org. Progressive, Typhoon, IMCO each had won a race. Dunbars had won two.

The process of finding incremental improvements and collectively raising everyone's game in the process is the attraction to racing for me. I look forward to more teams joining the SVL class. Any boat is capable of winning at each event.

 

[Ratickle]

One thing I'm still positive of, you guys talking to each other can figure out most of it......

I believe the POPRA guys actually drive go with if there is a hint of major sandbagging with a much faster boat.

Watching the race with Jim and Martin was a blast. The first two laps, Ginny and Mark were inbetween them.....:ack2:

 

[phragle]

I believe, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, the spins and damage done to Dean, Smitty, Louie, Bad Boy, etc would not have happened with the exact same boats with 6's. Therefore the initial expense of a 6 is offset at some point.

Having personally seen 3 of the four listed wipeout, I think they have achieved a very fine balance. True, there is some dollar value to fixing the damage from wipeouts, usually a little glass work or a lower(not cheap but not incredibly expensive) look at whats happening. you have a class where your racing boats, not GPS, on any given day 3 of the 4 have been proven winners (and the fourth has ran really strong). The fact they are wping out makes it a drivers race, not a spend money/equipment race. you simply can't just go wfo around the course, or you will spin. At the same token, the boats have proved safe wiping out at the speeds they are racing. this class has become the perfect class for somebody that wants to go balls out racing, against really good but beatable guys without the expense of monster motor maint. and every race the crew is going to become better at racing, not GPS watching/breakout avoidance.

 

[Wahoo 214]

dean, no offense, but the arguement of not having a "first place boat" is the whole problem with offshore racing. everyone wants a first place boat so it seems that every year theres more classes and less boats, hence more "first place boats". my comment wasn't to be de-grading but to put things in to perspective. a wise man told my that he'd rather race 6-8 boats and take a 3rd place finish than a first agianst 2 boats???? imagine in everyone in nascar won't go out there and race if they couldn't win. even the top few guys know that sometimes they have a top five car and understand that.



like i said i understand the reason, but think there might have been other ways to keep all the boats in P2.

if theres so much concern about parity in P class racing, whats with letting wicked (a supercat), that 46 skater run agianst 30' open cat?

if anyone should be *****ing it should be those guys. how do you run a 40 or 46 skater agianst a 30 footer. but the rules say 115 so its 115 in P1. and like i mentioned above, if i was able to race this year, i know that theres certain races that i have a good shot of winning - patchgue, st clair those ones with flatter water. places like OC or point pleasent i'm going to get my ass handed to me running against a 40 or 46. you have to know when to save the equipment for the days when you need it.

Dave, I think you are actually making my point for me. Boats need to be in there proper class and if your boat don't fit but all the others do, change your boat or class. That is why I race SV and you ran C1.

Like Jim said, "I knew there was no way in hell I could have beat the 42. That didn't keep me from trying. That is what made it so fun. We were the under dog. And he was willing to play." He was willing to play knowing he didn't stand a chance of winning 99% of the time. That gets old fast and I am sure he would not have come to LOTO just for that race.

Rick, it was Tyler's fault. :driving:

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

I agree with phragles post. . That class is great. The Bravo drive is the equalizer. The boats are being run to their full potential and the crew is the deciding factor. Not the motor, not the wallet, pure skill wins the race.

 

[Ratickle]

if theres so much concern about parity in P class racing, whats with letting wicked (a supercat), that 46 skater run agianst 30' open cat?

I really think all the P class rules should be reviewed. But, they are certainly the way to attract amatuers into racing. And the ability to race twice at an event by running P and Spec, is to me another great bonus....

I've been reviewing all the P Class rules from every org, plus overseas. Anyone who is interested should do the same. I believe all of the orgs need to standardize their P Class rules....

I must admit, I like the average lap speed way better than the top speed breakout way. But I am not the one to debate that, not enough experience period.

My opinion, a combined would be excellent. Average lap speed not to exceed the max, maximum speed not to exceed 5% of the max lap speed allowed for more than 3 seconds whatever the number of times there are laps. (Once per lapmax) or something....

So 85 class = 85 average lap speed period, you can exceed that during the lap by no more than 5% = 89 for no more than 3 seconds once per lap....

I believe POPRA would insist the boat was incapable of going over 89 in that scenario.....No Sandbaggers allowed.....

 

[Ratickle]

I agree with phragles post. . That class is great. The Bravo drive is the equalizer. The boats are being run to their full potential and the crew is the deciding factor. Not the motor, not the wallet, pure skill wins the race.

It is a very exciting class to watch, no doubt about it......

 

[Sean H]

I agree with phragles post. . That class is great. The Bravo drive is the equalizer. The boats are being run to their full potential and the crew is the deciding factor. Not the motor, not the wallet, pure skill wins the race.

100% correct. It's a novel concept; the fastest, best prepared, maintained, tested teams will rise to the top, not the teams with more HP and a smaller prop.

 

[Ratickle]

I agree with phragles post. . That class is great. The Bravo drive is the equalizer. The boats are being run to their full potential and the crew is the deciding factor. Not the motor, not the wallet, pure skill wins the race.

100% correct. It's a novel concept; the fastest, best prepared, maintained, tested teams will rise to the top, not the teams with more HP and a smaller prop.

And a little luck......

 

[skaterdave]

Dave, I think you are actually making my point for me. Boats need to be in there proper class and if your boat don't fit but all the others do, change your boat or class. That is why I race SV and you ran C1.



dean my point was there was NO SV class the year before, just P2. TKO fit that class and raced competively. over the winter it seems all the bravo guys got together and basically banned him by making up the SV class.

i understand you and the other SV's and how that helped even the field for the few older sv's with bravo's but in the grand sceme of things, all it accomplished was adding another class and loosing a boat? so i would have to call that into question, since the goal here is to bring more boats out to race.

 

[skaterdave]

It was the first time a had bracket raced. We were going as fast as we could in an 85 bracket. Martin was racing against us in the turns and the stop watch in the straights. It was fun because we did about 20 of the 24 turns side by side.. HE hosed us once good and forced us through his wake. I saw 88 in the straights 82ish in the south turn wide open and 60's and 70's in the north turn. Martin showed our average at 83 something and we finished with in his boat length.

It was a great warm up for Sunday. It was the most fun I had all season.

next, as too P class racing and gps vs overall lap speed. theres alot of critics that bust on the gps class setup and think that the overall lap time is better but as i read this post it appears to me that that basiccally you can take a really fast boat around the turns at speed and then just slow up to keep your lap time in check. so i question whats the difference??

i thinks good to see this type of racing and we need it to continue. but we need a common rule inwhich to race by. i think the gps setup is easier to race.