Mercury Marine To Close And Move All Production From Fond du Lac, Wisconsin......

[Chris]

When we start nationalizing corporations and then choose sides on who get what, things begin to get scary.

Somehow Obama saw fit that the contributions of the investors in General Motors contributions over the years meant nothing but the workers who had been getting paid all along should also get ownership.

It's been a long time since I blew the dust off of my copy of the Constitution, but I seem to vaguely remember something about the government seizing property from its citizens and giving it to others.

 

[skaterdave]

the funny part that both parties( leftist dems and far right wing REP's) like to leave out of both their arguements is the average guy is screwed!!!

the so-caled left wing leiberals want to start all types of social programs that the right says will cost too much. the left leaves out the part where all the money for these govt programs will get funneled throw their's buddy's businesses ( campaign contributors) which by the time the program does what it was intended for has no money left and has become useless. and of course fox news will cover this and show how bad the dems are.

on the other hand you got the GOP that always promises tax cuts and less govt. and their idea of less govt is of course to appoint their friends to govt agencies designed to protect the taxpayer so as to be able to munipulate the laws and rules to their advantage. mean while they give giant tax breaks to big business and the upper class. then they argue that the socialist dems are going to destroy our country by providing health care. kind of ironic if you ask me since ALL politicans have unrealistic benefit and pension plans after only a few years that most of us couldn't get after working 30+ yrs at are current jobs.

Chris,as for china being 20 yrs behind???? your kidding right? i cant even argue about us as a military power. just look at the afghanistan. how many yrs and were still there?

a rational person would probably ask some questions, like why or whats the point? or maybe look at how we got ourselves in that situtation,but then agian they would be looked at as un-patriotic.

our current govt works about as good as if i were to pay my employees a week ahead of time. and then wonder why no one showed up monday for work.

as for the original post about merc moving, i find it disconcerning that no one has brought up the state govt and what there putting on the table. the right to work states are screwing things up just as much as the unions. i don't know all the facts but from what i've read in some other "big business" moves like this one is that the states wave property tax or other forms of taxation that would normally bring income to the state for the promise of jobs. this is normally where the local politican parades around and shows off his hard work. of course the businesses are going to move there. lower or no taxes and cheap labor. we all know that a factory worker in mich. get paid more and had benefits, were as the same worker in S.C. will be working for far less. the problem i see is that where does that get the average guy. SC will get to put some of its unemployed to work for the same pay as 20 yrs ago and then have to tax the crap out of him to help make up for the state not collecting tax on the business??

 

[Geronimo36]

Absolutely........ and, for the record, my point was about our educational system and not the letters after the names of its graduates.

T2x

There sure are a lot of liberal professors out there.....:ack2:

 

[Geronimo36]

Speaking of government intervention.... Don't forget TARP was put together when the Republicans were still in office... The Dem's doubled it in the new year..... It's also worthy of mention that gov't recently earned 20% ROI when one of the big guys paid back the loan.

 

[Chris]

Chris,as for china being 20 yrs behind???? your kidding right? i cant even argue about us as a military power. just look at the afghanistan. how many yrs and were still there?

As I'm sure you know, we could kill every resident in the region in about an hour. But that's not our goal. Nor would it be consistent with anything you'd consider to be "American" about our country. Our goal is to root out an insurgency without ruining the lives of the people that live in the country. If Afghanistan had an actual army, we could mow through them in a light afternoon. We wouldn't even have to set our beers down.

As far as China, their technological advancement has propelled them to achieve the capability of actually landing an unmanned probe on the Moon. I was in grade school in the 60's and I remember us sticking actual people up there- repeatedly. And then we brought them home. Technologically, China has virtually nothing. They have alot of infantry though.

I can draw you a picture of how to make a nuclear weapon. But you can't do it. Neither can I. It's tough. And lobbing a missile across continents and hitting something the size of a suburban backyard is even tougher. I got to see first-hand alot of the absolute crap the Soviets built. And they're the people China gets their crap from. If you ever get the chance to see some of it, you'd enjoy a good laugh.

 

[Ratickle]

Speaking of government intervention.... Don't forget TARP was put together when the Republicans were still in office... The Dem's doubled it in the new year..... It's also worthy of mention that gov't recently earned 20% ROI when one of the big guys paid back the loan.

If you're talking about Goldman, check to see what money they received from the Government to make the profit to pay back the loan......


Another BS handout, hidden in the books by managing AIG.

 

[PARADOX]

I would love to get into this, but I don't want to get my blood boiling. Especcially since I was involved with the unions in the midwest, West and East coast in the construction industry. Let me just say that they are WORTHLESS. All the union leaders wanted is their Caddy and bribes. The tradesmen were mostly lazy and worthless dead weight milking the company.
Biggest problem is our philosophical views and education. There is NO education in the US.
While the worlds is getting smaller, our policies (both parties) is self interest driven instead of outlook to the future .

However here is a appropriate bumper sticker and I agree with it.

 

[T2x]

Speaking of government intervention.... Don't forget TARP was put together when the Republicans were still in office... The Dem's doubled it in the new year..... It's also worthy of mention that gov't recently earned 20% ROI when one of the big guys paid back the loan.

The fact is that we really don't have a choice of political parties. The Democrats are, in fact, the party of the left. As we have seen from recent news (Arlen Spector, et al) there are enough left/liberal big government spenders in the Republican party so as to completely neuter them as well.

What the voter needs (deserves) is a clearer delineation, i.e The Liberal/Socialist Party and The Conservative Party and skip the rest. There are far too many conservatives who are life long Democrats and get hoodwinked by tradition. There are also far too many people who think Republicans are conservatives..... not true in many cases... see Arnold, Bloomberg, Spector (until recently) and McCain. None of those four remotely resembles a conservative although you have a war hero, a billionaire, and an action movie star in the mix.

What the voters don't do is LISTEN TO and Research what their candidates stand for. If a guy is a Republican many people picture him or her in a Daddy Warbucks suit holding a big cigar and pushing "Big Business". In most cases all he or she is really doing is mouthing code words and pushing programs that are designed to gain votes. A good case in point is the current health care debate. The Democrats want Socialized medicine and the Republicans are against it....unless they get "compromises" and "involvement. In fact, they should object to the whole damn concept as just another example of a "free money" scam on the taxpayer.

At the end of the day...and to bring this back on track.... Mercury Marine and the entire industry is a victim of the simple fact that the government (both Republicans and Democrats) has sold the taxpayer out and diverted too much money away from the wage earner for him or her to buy a boat (or an RV, ocean cruise, motorcycle, home, etc). The unions can b*tch all they want, but without consumer income to fuel sales the whole damn industry and economy will continue to decline.

I think we should retitle this thread.... "Economics for Dummys and Democrats".

T2x

 

[catastrophe]

Forgetting all the rhetoric here, is the title of this thread accurate.?

Is Mercury in fact moving, or is all this pure speculation on everyones part.?

 

[T2x]

Forgetting all the rhetoric here, is the title of this thread accurate.?

Is Mercury in fact moving, or is all this pure speculation on everyones part.?

Mercury has announced a shut down in Wisconsin, but is currently in negotation with their unions to try and avoid the job losses in the Fox River Valley. The fact is that there have been extensive plant closings at Mercury for periods up to and over 30 days at a time in addition to many layoffs.

T2x

 

[Matt Trulio]

Ratickle and Rich,

Got to push off that little research project for a bit. I have a deadline to hit and hitting my deadlines is really, really helpful when it comes to getting paid.

Though I do a little charity work here and there, I am, first and foremost, a capitalist.

Good thread, guys. Took a political turn, but it's hard to discuss anything related to unions without going that way.

 

[Ratickle]

Ratickle and Rich,

Got to push off that little research project for a bit. I have a deadline to hit and hitting my deadlines is really, really helpful when it comes to getting paid.

Though I do a little charity work here and there, I am, first and foremost, a capitalist.

Good thread, guys. Took a political turn, but it's hard to discuss anything related to unions without going that way.

We'll wait.........:sifone:


ANd unions are political, every one......

 

[Geronimo36]

Although some of the board members wouldn't mind seeing Merc leave Fon du Lac, I think it's in the greater common interest to have them stay there and work things out. I just hope the union realizes that because they're playing all-in poker with a weak hand and I think Mercury called their bluff...

 

[Matt Trulio]

No definitive answers to be found in any online searches I can muster.

My friend Rich asserts there is a "huge workforce of MBAs brainwashed with Marxist pap." He asserts this based on his experience and the people with MBAs he knows.

Fair enough.

I assert there is no such "huge workforce" of such MBAs in existence. I assert this based on my experience and the MBAs I know, all of whom are conservative.

Fair enough?

Now, does it really come down to who knows the most MBAs? I don't think so. I don't think Rich thinks so.

On this Rich and I agree quite completely: The differences between liberal and conservative, at least in terms of our Republican and Democratic leaders, is negligible, with the exception of the ultra left (guys like Nader) and ultra right (guys like LaRouche).

Again, good thread. I far from agree with every point of view, liberal or conservative, presented here. But the discourse, and our right, to have it, rocks.

 

[T2x]

No definitive answers to be found in any online searches I can muster.

My friend Rich asserts there is a "huge workforce of MBAs brainwashed with Marxist pap." He asserts this based on his experience and the people with MBAs he knows.

Fair enough.

I assert there is no such "huge workforce" of such MBAs in existence. I assert this based on my experience and the MBAs I know, all of whom are conservative.

Fair enough?

Now, does it really come down to who knows the most MBAs? I don't think so. I don't think Rich thinks so.

On this Rich and I agree quite completely: The differences between liberal and conservative, at least in terms of our Republican and Democratic leaders, is negligible, with the exception of the ultra left (guys like Nader) and ultra right (guys like LaRouche).

Again, good thread. I far from agree with every point of view, liberal or conservative, presented here. But the discourse, and our right, to have it, rocks.

I concur. I have always maintained that I may not agree with someone's views, but I will gladly give his life for his right to state them.

T2x

 

[T2x]

I far from agree with every point of view, liberal or conservative, presented here.

You have to admire a guy who takes a firm stand and draws a clear line in the sand.

 

[Ratickle]

"More business decisions occur over lunch and dinner than at any other time, yet no MBA courses are given on the subject." ~ Peter Drucker


Since you came up with nothing, I'll go with some Drucker stuff.

One of the things he added later in life to his dislike of the American MBA system was, the inability of it to teach decision making skills. Welch may have been one of his most renowned disciples.

He lamented the fact that MBA Business schools taught how to discern problems, how to ask questions, and how to review facts. But none of them taught how to make decisions. It was this reasoning that led him to say towards the end of his life that American MBA programs was the most useless piece of paper, and would lead to the downfall, of the American businesses superiority around the world.

Maybe because they are all liberals?????:sifone:

 

[rbhudelson]

I try not to paint things with a single, broad brush. It seems short sighted to me. Anytime someone says "the problem with" (healthcare, government, economy, MBA's....) I chuckle. Unfortunately, you can't just point at "the problem" due to the multifaceted nature of complex systems and the causal relationships they hold with one another.

I respectfully disagree with any premise that says a man or woman can be converted to liberalism or conservatism just by going to school. Most people have their own beliefs and while these beliefs can be (altered) by outside forces it is hard to just accept someone else's beliefs in there entirety. I walked into college a God fearing, Rush Limbaugh conservative heterosexual and exited an atheistic socialist homo. People are different and process the world different. And just because they don't believe the way I do doesn't make them wrong....

But, I'm just an insurance salesman so I could be wrong

 

[Ratickle]

I walked into college a God fearing, Rush Limbaugh conservative heterosexual and exited an atheistic socialist homo.

So that's what happened......:sifone:

 

[T2x]

Unfortunately, you can't just point at "the problem" due to the multifaceted nature of complex systems and the causal relationships they hold with one another.

On the other hand if you have enough government committees involved, a black and white issue quickly deteriorates into a matter of "choice and environment". As a result nothing gets done.

Political discussion is the mother of absurdity.

Each election yields thousands of politicians who are put into some office or other. Every one of these empty suits is responsible to a "constituency". Each "public servant" wants to do something and get "credit" for it in order to be re-elected. The only thing that they can do is inact "legislation" (More laws). Since this has been going on in an ever increasing volume for hundreds of years....we have , no doubt, created more laws than a thousand planets could ever need. Given that the original purpose of government is to 1. protect the citizenry from outside aggression and internal criminality (military and police), 2. Take care of roads, bridges and highways, 3. Oversee public utilities, and 4. Provide for the general welfare, it would appear that we have stretched those basic mandates in bizarre, unrecognizable and ridiculously costly ways while accomodating the gnawing desire to "legislate".

As a result we have a bloated, unworkable system, populated by the worst that our society has to offer. This system is supported and allowed to flourish as a result of voters accepting tired maxims like "you can't just point at "the problem" due to the multifaceted nature of complex systems and the causal relationships they hold with one another", instead of reducing government to simple goals....and simple answers. In spite of the time wasted crafting 1000 page bills for congress....most problems can and should be explained in a simple factual Q&A outline. If something takes 1000 pages to address....it is certainly too complicated to succeed. While this may offend some of your intellectual sensibilities, in reality, the smartest people I know are the ones who convey deep thought with minimum verbage.

T2x