Broken Drive Shaft?!?!

[blackhawk]

I am glad you get it.

The corrective action for a sagging mount is to replace them as a pair. Not lower the front of the motor. Simple, end of discussion

No one ever said to lower the front of the motor to correct sagging mounts. The topic came up to CHECK THE REAR mounts because you can lower the front of the motor and get the tool to slide in if your mounts have sagged.

Tinkerer was trying to be helpful by saying you make sure your motor is aligned AND check your rear mounts for sagging if it needs adjustment, not just adjust the motor. And for some reason a bunch of people jump on him.

I'm out.

 

[Ratickle]

Tinkerer was trying to be helpful by saying you make sure your motor is aligned AND check your rear mounts for sagging if it needs adjustment, not just adjust the motor. And for some reason a bunch of people jump on him.

I gotta disagree, if he would have said that, like that, there most likely would have been a very beneficial discussion for all.

This is what he started with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerer

It isn't lack of grease that blows couplers its lack of alignment.

Get an alignment tool - your engine is WAY off.



Are you agreeing lack of grease does not blow couplers? I think you're wrong there from talking with both my Merc drive guys.

 

[Tinkerer]

I NEVER said that saging rear mounts was the major cause of blown couplers.
What I said was the engine is out of alignment.
I then tried to show these guys what can happen when the rear mounts sag and that got turned into this bashing debate.

I still havn't found anyone that can prove me wrong on the isue of the saging rear mounts still allowing for what looks to be proper alignment with the standard method that the Merc. techs use.

As far as name calling - You have got to be kidding me.
I have been bashed since I came on this thread.
See post #34 - I wasn't the only one getting the wrath of Mobile.

Telling me that the more I type the less he thinks of me or my abilities, warning others not to use my services. And more.

 

[Tinkerer]

Rat - on this subject - it seems that just maybe I do know more than a few of the experts bashing me on this thread. If you are reading into this as me saying I know more on any subject than a MERC tech than You are reading it wrong.

I did state what I do for a living. BUT the boats I work on are primarily all high performance types. I am not an english major. I think an english majors knowledge would be wasted on this forum. Don't we need peolpe with hands on knowledge repairing boats. I have learned over the years that sometimes the crazy idea is sometimes correct. Just because I have been doing something one way for many years doesn't make it always right.
Sometimes the technical books get things wrong. Or don't go into enough detail.
I have seen many cases of this in my life.
There is a boiler that is produced today that has a small design change due to my visit to the factory years ago. When I made the suggestion everyone looked at me like who the H do you think you are. Guess what - I was right - what I told them would happen did. They made the change I suggested and sent me a letter thanking me.
I am getting that same attitude ( who the H do you think you are ) here on this thread.

Just because I don't repair boats daily or build race boats doesn't make me stupid.

All I did was tell him to check the alignment. And all the bashing led to this.....

 

[Tinkerer]

Ask your Merc tech what will blow a coupler quicker - an engine baddly out of alignment or an engine that is in perfect alignment but is going dry on grease.

We have yet to find out what went bad - If it was the coupler was it the splines or the rubber part???

 

[Blue Thunder]

I think when you get right down to it, its like this. The schooled and experienced merc guys have lots of reps with problems and formulate an absolute solution for it. 90% of the time this is correct for customers applications, the other 10% they wing it.

Then you combine that mentallity (on here) with people who have been doing this as a serious hobby for umpteen years with a high level of practical, out of the box experience, you get tension. I wish the educated crowd would pay more mind to the practical crowd. They would be well served for it in their profession.

I know as an educated and experienced mfg engineer that the most valuable info I get with production equipment is from the high school drop out operators that run the machines every day. You just have to pay attention to what is said and translate it to achieve higher level solutions. To disregard input is short sighted by the schooled, experienced folks. I fire engineers and techs for that mentallity.

BT

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The shaft still needs to be paralell to the bottom of the boat.
How do you know that the rear mounts havn't sagged?

Isn't there a different transom assembly for each different angle transom?

I made an attachment for my alignment tool to check the rear mounts for sag.
I bet you don't have one. It wasn't hard to figure out. If the alignment tool is not at the right angle in relation to the drive it shows up instantly.

I bet that you think that if the alignment tool slides right in smooth everything is OK.

NOT

I can lower the front of an engine two inches and still get the alignment tool to show that everthing is perfect according to your MERC tech.

Steve it was comments like these that have me questioning your abilities. You made it an argument. And the one when you blow 3 couplers in 30 minutes. I bet ,I bet, I bet....

I still do not wish to argue with you. There is no wrath on my part. It is you continuing to argue. Tell me again about how everything is HP you work on. The high performance boats I work on have non adjustable mounts and this is one big non issue about lowering the front and what might happen.

 

[Tinkerer]

So let me get this straight - You don't think that the engine on a bravo set up is by design paralell to the bottom of the boat.

I might be wrong but I thought that there was a different transom assembly or a tappered spacer for flat off angle transoms. I thought I saw something somewhere about that. ( All the boats I work on have the same transom angle.)

What don't you believe about the tool I made. It works.

So you are saying that IF your alignment tool slides right in smootly then the engine has to be aligned properly. I thought I already prooved that idea wrong.

You don't think that I can lower the front of an engine with bravo drive two inches and still get the stock alignment tool ( shaft only ) to slide right in smoothly.

I have $1000 says I can.

And it takes two to argue.

I never said I have blown three couplers in 30 minutes.
I said I blew a ( one ) new coupler in 30 minutes after a MERC tech said the engine was properly aligned. I blew three couplers in two weeks ( one each weekend ) ( it was my boat ) when the second coupler blew I replaced it and aligned it myself and THEN had it checked by the MERC tech at a well known marine repair facility where I live. That coupler lasted about 2 hours. After the third coupler blew I started thinking out of the box and figured out what was wrong. ( the rear mounts had gone bad and allowed the rear of the engine to drop. I was still able to ( align ) the engine by dropping the front of the motor. It was not obvious because there was no way to directly see the rear mounts. How I figured something was wrong was by seeing the ANGLE of the alignment tool in relation to the bottom the boat. As I raised the back of the engine with shims and also raised the front of the motor with the adjustment nuts the alignment tool came into line with the bottom of the boat. ( paralell )

How many boats have offshore mounts that you work on. I find that the majority of the boats I work on were once stock - with stock mounts. That is why I am so carefull about checking for mount failure.

 

[Ratickle]

I am getting that same attitude ( who the H do you think you are ) here on this thread......

Only because of the way you started.

You are complaining about others doing the exact same thing you started with in your first post.

Read it and tell me what your reaction would be if that was someone else's first post to you a couple of pages into a thread where multiple people are trying to help someone.

You immediately dismissed everything everyone had said and it was "Your engine is way out of alignment", period. Couldn't be anything else.....

I have never, (knock on wood), blown either. Don't want to, but if I can learn anything to help anyone else, I will pay attention.


Anyway, I live north of Holland, used to live on Gun, what boats do you work on? I know most of them around West Michigan.....

 

[MacGyver]

 

[Tinkerer]

I see that If you don't have a degree behind your name your thoughts don't matter here.

No one has proven me wrong.

No one is willing to try what I suggested.

I am done here.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

Scheduled maintenance pertaining to couplers. Manual #23 states engine couplers need to be greased every 100 hrs or seasons end.

Manual Racing #9 Hp 525 suggests every 50 hrs or seasons end. Mercury has there own spline grease 92-802880A1. It is different than the gimble bearing U joint grease # 92-802870A1.

If you pay attention you will notice there is almost always grit that accumulates in the splines when you service your drives. This grit is aluminum and dried grease. If the spline comes out dry it is more obvious. Splines wear. If at some point it failed understand that it may have been a progression of situations that contributed to it.

Once the coupler has failed it may not be obvious immediately why. You cannot check alignment on a failed coupler. The best way I have found to repair properly the first time is to remove the motor with out disturbing the alignment so when you replace it you have more information to go on. I always take a good look at the rear mounts, the condition of the stringers, and on twins the line up of exhaust across the boat.

Often the motor will line up. If it doesn't this is the time to recognize what has moved if anything. It may be worth taking a second look at the rear mount and associated hardware. If you find the need to move the front of the motor more than a few turns chances are good something else is wrong.

The pedestal adjustable mounts have a few short comings. The tabs often don't get locked, the threads can get beat out and the allow the motor to float around some. Race plate mounts naturally hold the motor better. Double race mounts the best.

I have seen busted stringers, bellhousing with out locating dowels and broken bellhouings, bent aluminum angle plates, angle hardware loose and moving all play a part in coupler failures.

If you know the mounts have moved there is a chance the coupler got hot and the rubber shows signs of melting around the splines. The splines may no longer be centered. This will make it impossible to align properly. It is possible to blow the rubber out with power. It may slip a little every time as it eats across a chop until it gets hot and fails but, you would have to run it really hard for an extended period.

 

[MacGyver]

I see that If you don't have a degree behind your name your thoughts don't matter here.

No one has proven me wrong.

No one is willing to try what I suggested.

I am done here.

I think a Merc mechanic with years of experience would be someone I'd listen to.

 

[Geronimo36]

So you are saying that IF your alignment tool slides right in smootly then the engine has to be aligned properly. I thought I already prooved that idea wrong.

You don't think that I can lower the front of an engine with bravo drive two inches and still get the stock alignment tool ( shaft only ) to slide right in smoothly.

I have $1000 says I can.

Not trying to insinuate more argument but if the rear mounts go bad and sags yes, you'll have to lower the front of the engine to get the same angle but the centerline of the gimbal bearling and the coupler has changed. It doesn't matter that the gimbal bearing swivels because the centerlines are now skewed. In the end all you did is lower the engine and the gimbal bearing stayed in the same place (higher than the engine). If the mounts sagged a little sometimes you can still be able to get the tool in but if they sagged a lot you wont. Rub some spline grease on the alignment tool and slide it in. Pull it out and note the spline marks on the tool and you will see the top half having spline marks and the bottom half will either have faint markings or none at all. The tool is supposed to be slid in/out with minmal pressure.

If you lower the front of an engine two inches you would have to hammer the tool in. I remember years ago I had to fix stringers on a fishing boat cause the forward stringers got soft and the engine went down about a 1/2". I couldn't get the engine aligned unless I put a piece of starboard under the mounts. I then had to fix the stringers for the owner. I raised X dimensions on my boat did all new offshore mounts a few months ago and small movements in the front made a big difference sliding the tool in/out and the spline/grease markings on the tool.

 

[DAREDEVIL]

Not trying to insinuate more argument but if the rear mounts go bad and sags yes, you'll have to lower the front of the engine to get the same angle but the centerline of the gimbal bearling and the coupler has changed. It doesn't matter that the gimbal bearing swivels because the centerlines are now skewed. In the end all you did is lower the engine and the gimbal bearing stayed in the same place (higher than the engine). If the mounts sagged a little sometimes you can still be able to get the tool in but if they sagged a lot you wont. Rub some spline grease on the alignment tool and slide it in. Pull it out and note the spline marks on the tool and you will see the top half having spline marks and the bottom half will either have faint markings or none at all. The tool is supposed to be slid in/out with minmal pressure.

If you lower the front of an engine two inches you would have to hammer the tool in. I remember years ago I had to fix stringers on a fishing boat cause the forward stringers got soft and the engine went down about a 1/2". I couldn't get the engine aligned unless I put a piece of starboard under the mounts. I then had to fix the stringers for the owner. I raised X dimensions on my boat did all new offshore mounts a few months ago and small movements in the front made a big difference sliding the tool in/out and the spline/grease markings on the tool.

THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!! Now finally i can recieve my check from him !

 

[DAREDEVIL]

Also just for info,,,my engine is lower in the front then the back if u go by the bottom of the bilge,,and i think most of them are.
I do have RACEMOUNTS front and back and the engine is aligent 100% prefect with the gimbal ( outdrive ).

So the statement above i think are actually wrong on most or some aplications u can't go by that since most of the boats are diffrent even from same manufacture ,,sometimes !

And u better stop betting and take the 1000 bucks and invest in a crash course with merc. LOL

PS, the statement i made about the bearing being fixed is because it is,,,the only reason why it swivels is dou to the ~1000th of gap for the grease it swiels less then 1/16 of an inch ,,if it would not do that even with a perfect aligment it would explode with each fibration of the drive or engine . also it cant/shouldn't move in the gimbal otherwise u would not need one. Or a puller to get it out ?!

I know i sound like a smart@SS sometimes ,,but i have been around rigging for a long time,the only thing i don't have a clue about on a boat is the inside of an engine,,,but thats why i know JIM .LOL:USA:

PEACE OUT , i am done :leaving:

 

[Ratickle]

I think a Merc mechanic with years of experience would be someone I'd listen to.

Hey, we don't do the name calling stuff no matter how upset we are. We are all trying to do our best to help people. But thanks for sticking up for the guys who have been here.

Now, how about editing that?

 

[Ratickle]

I know i sound like a smart@SS sometimes

Sometimes, did you say sometimes??????:sifone:

 

[Ratickle]

Guys,

I do not want this thread to end up closed. Take a breath and lets see what his outcome is for one thing, then we'll run a couple tests and find out.

I've got my one Bravo boat at Ben's right now.

I have to believe the 2" is an overstatement by a bunch. But, there is no one on this thread who doesn't think a properly aligned engine is a bad thing.

If George and Scotty can get along to help this sport, so should this bunch.....

 

[Griswald]

I luv the interweb...................