That is correct. The LLC built it and racers came. SBI, which was down to fleets in the teens and a Worlds in New Orleans, was no longer competition, respectfully. The new product has to be centered around ONE premier class that the founder/owner controls 100%. (No more fat, middle aged ego maniac wannabes/plumbers who can wreck it.) The stark reality is that P class teams, SVL, and whatever else, will be secondary and for the foresseable future not a venue where those participants can expect to make money and expect large sponsorships. They can, however, have a place to race and have fun - i.e. part of a large as opposed to embarrassing show.
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The Great Unification
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That is correct. The LLC built it and racers came. SBI, which was down to fleets in the teens and a Worlds in New Orleans, was no longer competition, respectfully. The new product has to be centered around ONE premier class that the founder/owner controls 100%. (No more fat, middle aged ego maniac wannabes/plumbers who can wreck it.) The stark reality is that P class teams, SVL, and whatever else, will be secondary and for the foresseable future not a venue where those participants can expect to make money and expect large sponsorships. They can, however, have a place to race and have fun - i.e. part of a large as opposed to embarrassing show.
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
In a perfect world.
The fat, middle aged ego maniac wannabes/plumbers need a reason to purchase new equipment for said race class. So 100% control needs to be accompanied by a big purse to justify the purchase of equipment. Than there needs to be some guarantee the Founder/owner doesn't change the rules and obsolete the ego maniac wannabes/plumbers equipment.
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
I love how you have all the answers, sit on the sidelines, and live in the past.
Did the LLC or anyone ever match all the ego maniac wannabe/plumbers investments?
Did the LLC or anyone ever match all the ego maniac wannabe/plumbers investments?
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
I do agree with you RB Air races are a perfect example of what is needed in offshore.
We sure did and then some. And, unlike the fat, middle aged, ego maniac wannabe/plumbers (I forgot to mention drunkard Napoleans) ("FMAEMWPN's"), we invested our money so others could have fun and be part of something bigger than any individual, with the hope, albeit a far-fetched one, that we might one day make money.
And I think you missed my point: Any person or group of people who wanted to try again to create a viable motorsport with offshore racing, SHOULD NOT EVEN ALLOW THE FMAEMWPN's anywhere near the sport let alone make an effort to recruit them.
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
I will never forget the fun of F2 in the Hay Day. I feel fortunate to have been a part of it but, it is History.
I would like to make a living racing. In the mean time I can enjoy it for what it is.
I would like to make a living racing. In the mean time I can enjoy it for what it is.
This member seems to have the answers to the questions being asked on this thread . That is not sitting on the sidelines ,It is actually actively participating .Granted ,perhaps you do not care for the correct answers .
I have a question for you , since you are an svl guy if I may ?
All the svl owners are pro oss except maybe one and im not sure about him .
Where are they ? Last four years it went from about 10 down to four .
just curious , not making waves .
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
Dondoon,
I have only just met most of the SVL guys. This is my first year with them. I am lucky to get to participate and I enjoy racing with them. I am sorry I don't know the complete answer. All I can say is one guy is racing Cat light, one guy sunk his boat, another team is sitting out, a boat or two is for sale. The class is no different than any other attrition takes it toll over time.
I have only just met most of the SVL guys. This is my first year with them. I am lucky to get to participate and I enjoy racing with them. I am sorry I don't know the complete answer. All I can say is one guy is racing Cat light, one guy sunk his boat, another team is sitting out, a boat or two is for sale. The class is no different than any other attrition takes it toll over time.
S
SHARKEY-IMAGES
Guest
And if this isn't enough of a teaser of just how professional a 5 minute clip of offshore can be made into entertainment, nothing can be. But as you said it comes with a price. I am sure Mr Haggin paid dearly to bring this coverage to Destin Fl....
I was really hoping someone would have caught on that this can be a viable piece of entertainment, but when they see so many orgs and all of the friction, they probably think twice.:leaving:
Have a look at how it CAN BE DONE !!! :sifone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_SAFjARlMc
.
The business plan has to focus on creating a viable sanctioning organization NOT a race team. The focus of the big money folks has always been on the latter. They spend money for a while, have great fun, become "icons", get bored, leave, become legends, and the sport dies a little more. Until the big money gets invested into a "boycott proof" product, that cycle will continue until the sport finally dies. (And as someone who was once deeply involved but now sits on the sidelines observing, the sport is on life support and the paddles are being charged.)
The trick is finding an investor person or group who gets a bigger charge out of being Bill France than a race team owner.
As one who raced for the better part of 15 to 20 years, Mike is absolutely right! The ONLY way this sport can ever achieve some sort of marketability is to have it ruled by a Bill France-type "iron fist". Racers need to WANT to be part of an organization that just might issue a ruling or policy that might not be in their best interests at the moment as a race team, BUT will actually be in their best interests LONG TERM as participants in the sport. Sort of the "greater good" theory.
The great days of F-2 racing in the 2000 to 2002 period was as PROFESSIONAL as I was ever involved in, and I need to thank Mike and the LLC team for that. I must also say that the old days of racing with US Offshore, or even NPBA or APBA Northeast in the late eighties and nineties were the most FUN thast I ever had racing. So, it would seem to me, the choice is do racers want PROFESSIONAL racing or FUN racing? It might be difficult to get both, and I'm not certain which way I would go if I had to make the choice. But, to be taken seriously as a viable and marketable motorsport is going to take a LOT of sacrifice and compromise on the part of the participants, and that is certainly not fun and historically not likely to happen.
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
I think Smitty is delivering fun and professional. The challenge would be to grow it to the next level. The P class model generates as good of footage as any other offshore event. The problem is explaining it to a 3rd grader and interesting them. That is what makes good TV. In P class the boats can appear very different even though they are racing each other.
The other challenge is what it would sell? The easiest sales are related to the event boats drives, props and engines the problem is most of those guys want to ride for free. When a motorsport is really succesful it can sell unrelated items soap, candy bars, drugs, even home loans.
What regular sponsors want is a direct return for their involvement nothing less.
Steve
The only way sponsors of unrelated goods and services will be attracted to the sport is if the CPM's justify the buy. Right now, there isn't anywhere near enough "impressions" to justify the costs. If the live or, hopefully, TV audience can increase, then the unrelated sponsors will come. I mean, "Dancing With the Stars" can get tons of sponsorship, and why? Because so many people watch it! Right now, the problem with offshore racing is creating a competition model that anyone other than the racers and teir friends and family would want to watch. Fix that problem, and you might be headed in the right direction. To fix that problem, though, requires a "Big Bill France" my-way-or-the highway approach which we all know would be VERY unpopular with the majority of the racers. And so, the circle continues!
Tom
Total Marine
Steve Miklos
Charter Member / Competitor
Well, clearly you get it!
F1 and F2 worked because it had some of the key ingredients. F1 and F2 was not born to be a marketing tool. It was born because there was a bunch of guys who wanted A and B class back.
We did talk about how it could sell pleasure boats.
We (Mike A. Pepper E and me) really just wanted a reasonable class to race. It was a greater hit then we ever imagined. By the second race (Ft Meyers) we were working on F3 (SCL). Had it been born with a profit motive we could have controlled it better.
Steve
F1-00 Racing
Competitor
OK, first I appreciate everyones concerns with my family, mom is as well as can be expected and we're moving forward. In essence, I dont want any sympathy, bash away. I can handle it!
This thread in the first hundred posts was very informative and I learned a lot, but since and now its up to over six hundred posts seems to be going in circles and nobody seems to be able to look in the mirror and point the finger at themselves. Its always someone elses fault. Bottom line LLC became a fixture of history 5 years ago. Stick a fork in it. I was around in 01 and in 03 and had a great time. Good, bad, indifferent it is only a memory. I am firm believer in learning from the past in order to avoid repeats in the future, but my god, enough is enough. Everyone has their own opinion as to how to go forward and everyone has more or less come up with excuses as why it cant work. A main theme I have seen is that you need independent money and lots of it to invest into an association.
My questions now are, a multi-BILLION dollar company(Seminole Indian Tribe) has invested millions and now another multi-BILLION dollar company(Panasonic) has signed with some more millions to be the series sponsor. We all know about the current rumour that is going around about another multi-BILLION company getting involved. These companies see the value, why is it that only 11-16 race teams see the value in this? Why is it that the racers always have their hands out wanting more instead of being proactive and using the tools provided and go forward? We as racers and former racers just want to come on here and keyboard race instead of getting on the same page and moving forward. I have heard the excuse JC, is that the factor as why more boats dont show?
Sean can verify, but I heard that there were more HD cameras in FtL than their was race teams. Hmmm sounds like each team is getting a lot of coverage. Forget about the racing in person, an editing room can make anything look good. Heck even the infamous "Daredevil" had a special done on him down there. The show wont be all about the racing, but a lot about the characters involved.
We can all post on here until we're blue in the face, but history cant be changed, the future can be. There are two stable schedules out there. Make the best choices for your team and have fun. If you want to take the tools given to us on a silver platter and use them to possibly get this sport to where we all feel it should be then great, if not thats great too, but make a choice stick with it and quit coming on SOS or OSO and whining and crying about how great it WAS. You as teams control your own destiny, nobody can wipe your butts for ya.
Trent
This thread in the first hundred posts was very informative and I learned a lot, but since and now its up to over six hundred posts seems to be going in circles and nobody seems to be able to look in the mirror and point the finger at themselves. Its always someone elses fault. Bottom line LLC became a fixture of history 5 years ago. Stick a fork in it. I was around in 01 and in 03 and had a great time. Good, bad, indifferent it is only a memory. I am firm believer in learning from the past in order to avoid repeats in the future, but my god, enough is enough. Everyone has their own opinion as to how to go forward and everyone has more or less come up with excuses as why it cant work. A main theme I have seen is that you need independent money and lots of it to invest into an association.
My questions now are, a multi-BILLION dollar company(Seminole Indian Tribe) has invested millions and now another multi-BILLION dollar company(Panasonic) has signed with some more millions to be the series sponsor. We all know about the current rumour that is going around about another multi-BILLION company getting involved. These companies see the value, why is it that only 11-16 race teams see the value in this? Why is it that the racers always have their hands out wanting more instead of being proactive and using the tools provided and go forward? We as racers and former racers just want to come on here and keyboard race instead of getting on the same page and moving forward. I have heard the excuse JC, is that the factor as why more boats dont show?
Sean can verify, but I heard that there were more HD cameras in FtL than their was race teams. Hmmm sounds like each team is getting a lot of coverage. Forget about the racing in person, an editing room can make anything look good. Heck even the infamous "Daredevil" had a special done on him down there. The show wont be all about the racing, but a lot about the characters involved.
We can all post on here until we're blue in the face, but history cant be changed, the future can be. There are two stable schedules out there. Make the best choices for your team and have fun. If you want to take the tools given to us on a silver platter and use them to possibly get this sport to where we all feel it should be then great, if not thats great too, but make a choice stick with it and quit coming on SOS or OSO and whining and crying about how great it WAS. You as teams control your own destiny, nobody can wipe your butts for ya.
Trent
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SVL66
Charter Member
Why? Because we have heard the hype so many times, we need to see it to believe it.
Ok... so you had a huge production crew...Time will tell what comes out of that. Im sure Sarasota will bring a good boat count, as usual, maybe better. The season is getting off to a slow start. Lets see where it all goes.
F1-00 Racing
Competitor
Point taken and I agree with you somewhat. The only thing is I sat by in the past believing the hype and the rumours and now I call and verify. I heard it directly from CBS(VP of programming) that it is a done deal, not from his little press conference in Clearwater. I spoke directly to representatives @ Panasonic. Its no longer Hype, its reality. JC knows about the hype better than anyone, he has to look at himself in the mirror every night and knows his reputation on publishing hype better than anyone. Keep in mind though, if he made half this stuff up, wouldnt there be misrepresentation lawsuits, trademark infringements, etc. How great will the show be? Who knows, as you said "time will tell" but keep in mind that CBS has bottom line on what is shown on their network, even though this is a buyin they also have a huge financial investment into making sure it a quality series. ie if your cabinets were crap you wouldnt get repeat business(your products are top notch, hence your successful business), CBS wants to get millions of dollars income in the years to come.
As I said Bruce, we all have choices, SBI is based in Fla, you are based in NJ, OPA makes perfect sense for you, it is very expensive(also more time away from home/work) to be hauling down here once a month especially based on calculated risks that this might turn out to be something. Its up to the racers to show and race or they can sit on here and multilate the horse, it died a while back from several severe beatings
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