What's the REAL story with Bravo XR's?

[PARADOX]

So what is it?
Merc puts a Bravo package to the 525's. Already the Bravos are at their limit with 500's and 525's actually put out about .. what.. 540 HP's?
Are these drives being overpowered?
I know the history of the clutch patent with Volvo and when Bravos came out etc.. Merc puts out the 525's for the racing circuit, with great success, but now the consumer pays for their marketing scheme/
A bunch of them are just flat out blowing out. I know some sensitive info. So here it goes.
The XR upper drive shaft has a special heat/coating treatment for durability, yet almost every one has "groves" from the upper. (seated style) pin bearing.
What's the scoop?
Older Bravos have the "unseated" pin bearing with no issues, (and not on 525's) and "unhardened" upper driveshaft. Are the XR being overpowered with the 525's?
Does Merc have some design issues where as they need to step up to the plate and resolve expenditures that the boat owner should not have to dish out?
I have to have my drives rebuilt because of this. Let me rephrase this. I DON'T HAVE TO. It's recommended that I do before they blow.
Thanks!!! now I have a drive that's unsafe? I seen 11-14+ upper driveshaft (on a bench) that ALL have groves at the pin gear.
WTF!!! Why won't Merc fixes this?
Merc. is checking on my issues, but I would like to hear from all of you guys on this.
(CMI issues etc forthcoming on other thread, soon)
For the record. Merc did "help" with the CMI issues. See Thread in good guys bad guys, coming soon)

 

[2112]

Consider having the gears cryo'd when you have them apart. :USA:

.

 

[DollaBill]

It's all in the sticks brother

 

[BraceYourself]

I had a 42 cig with Xr's and 525's. Ran it to the dash everywhere I went. I only broke one XR in the 100 hours. I had a rebuild drive handy, that I think cost $2700, and within an hour the boat was ready to go.

I'd just run em untill they break. You may be surprised how long they go.

 

[CRC]

Just my personal experience: Last spring I pulled the 496 HO out of my Donzi 22 Classic and dropped in a low hour '07 vintage 525. I picked up a solid 10+ mph (85.8 best mph to date). I already had an Imco shorty. The Bravo X blew after 7 hours with this combo. I put on a XR upper and ran hard the rest of the season with no problems. The XR is definately stronger.

 

[Chris]

Consider having the gears cryo'd when you have them apart. :USA:

.

While you're at it, isotropic microfinishing greatly improves the durability. Not very expensive to have done for the results it yields.

 

[JupiterSunsation]

It's all in the sticks brother

+1


Shorties however do seem to have a shorter life span.....

 

[JupiterSunsation]

I had a 42 cig with Xr's and 525's. Ran it to the dash everywhere I went. I only broke one XR in the 100 hours. I had a rebuild drive handy, that I think cost $2700, and within an hour the boat was ready to go.

I'd just run em untill they break. You may be surprised how long they go.

fluid changes at 50 hours or less will help too.....

 

[PARADOX]

It's all in the sticks brother

Don't think so bud.. Motors have only a few hours at 5K RPM if that.
Uper driveshaft for the XR's getting some special treatment by Merc. Not working.. but they may last for a long time, or go anytime.
Not grear issues either Chris.. Gears are good. The upper "pin gears" were changed by Merc. now they are "seated" and actually have less pins, or little gears in them. Hard to find the "old" style pin gears, they have the same part No. now.. but Merc knows the story. They know it's a problem but the problem generaly comes after warranty.. Merc's take on this is standard ware and tear, depand on use... so they say.. I'm getting actual CPU times read in the AM.
I will have some serious dialogs with them at the Miami show with sample shafts with me.

 

[DollaBill]

Don't think so bud.. Motors have only a few hours at 5K RPM if that.
Uper driveshaft for the XR's getting some special treatment by Merc. Not working.. but they may last for a long time, or go anytime.
Not grear issues either Chris.. Gears are good. The upper "pin gears" were changed by Merc. now they are "seated" and actually have less pins, or little gears in them. Hard to find the "old" style pin gears, they have the same part No. now.. but Merc knows the story. They know it's a problem but the problem generaly comes after warranty.. Merc's take on this is standard ware and tear, depand on use... so they say.. I'm getting actual CPU times read in the AM.
I will have some serious dialogs with them at the Miami show with sample shafts with me.

I hear what you're saying, but.....................

I can say that between '03 and '08 ish I had at least 5 Fountains, 4 42's and a 35' that I put at least 100-150 hrs on each and never had a problem. Not 1. That included a 42 Poker Run sit down and a 42 Executioner with not 525's - hold your hat - 600sci's. I ran those boats HARD in east coast ocean water. Never a lake. Just sayin....

 

[PARADOX]

I wish I have your luck.. I understand what you saying. If I would run this thing hard.. I wouldn't complain. The reason I got the 525's and the XR's to be reliable.
After seeing the problems with the CMI's and now with the upper drive shaft.. it's pretty fraking frustrating.. I really don't know all the possible issues with the drive shaft problem. It may not be a big issues at all and might last for 200-300 hours with normal use and a few crazy wekends. But.. I saw a doz or so shaft (all with same issues) on the mechanic's bench. Thus my thread of try to find out what's the scoop.

 

[t500hps]

Info from a guy running 800+ hp and IMCO stuff. He swears he only breaks chit when funning easy.......and his logic makes sense. At 3,500 your not spinning the drive hard BUT, you've got more of the boat "in the water" (more drag) and your running near peak TQ (which is what is actually worse on your drive). When your running 5,500 the boat is simply skiping along the surface of the water and your actually producing less TQ. As long as you keep the props in the water this is (he says) easier on the drives.


Actually makes sense to me.

 

[mikebrls]

N

I had a xr drive on my 28 pantera with a 600 ci. Motor @ 725+ hp.
Ran the boat for 80 hour's pretty hard also jo " from pantera " would go out with me on day's when the ocean was rough and teach me a few thing's and he drive's real hard . The key to making those drive's live with any type of power is "" no wholeshot's "" from a standing start . Get on plane slow and then you can hit the stick's any way you want as long as you know how to throtle theboat when catching air and we did a lot of that with my old " 2005 pantera " i sold the boat with 80 hour's on it and no problems with the drive .

It's how you drive it

ow and also i had a 38 sonic that i bought used with 525's and xr's and i had the boat 1 month and one of the drive's blew " not my fault" the guy who drove the boat before me would do whole shot's from a dead stop " and i new it was coming when i bought the boat " after fixing the drive i put on over 150 hour's on boat and had no drive problem's and this was on a heavy boat .
Like i said before
it's how you drive it

good luck and take it easy on those xr's they are great drive's

mike

 

[PARADOX]

Thanks for the "driving lessons" but that's not what I'm looking for.
I'm looking for some technical input. I have a 1994 Std Bravo and the boat been hell and back with no drive issues. Raced back in the 80's and I don't do the hole shots so it's not driving lessons I'm interested in. I been using the sticks for over 3 decades, but I appreciate the comments.
The issues is why so manny upper drivshafts show wear from the "pin gear".
Is it the pin gear problem or the shaft. Whatever it is, shouldn't Merc do something about it? due to it's a common and frequent issue. Standard Bravos don't seem to have this.

 

[Bad Idea Baja]

I have IMCO Extreme's on my 29 Baja. The motors are Whippled 454's that make somewhere in the 650hp range. I run my turd hard & have broken the starboard drive 3 times & never the port. I spin my propellers in.
Why it is the way it is I have no idea, but I sure would like to not have that problem & would really like to afford to fix it correctly with the IMCO SCX drive or Arneson's, but those options cost more than the boat is worth.

 

[jeff1000man]

I have IMCO Extreme's on my 29 Baja. The motors are Whippled 454's that make somewhere in the 650hp range. I run my turd hard & have broken the starboard drive 3 times & never the port. I spin my propellers in.
Why it is the way it is I have no idea, but I sure would like to not have that problem & would really like to afford to fix it correctly with the IMCO SCX drive or Arneson's, but those options cost more than the boat is worth.

Boat is heavy on the starboard side because you standing over there. That drive re enters the water first.

Just thinking. Probably the medication. :huh::boobflash:

 

[DAREDEVIL]

I have IMCO Extreme's on my 29 Baja. The motors are Whippled 454's that make somewhere in the 650hp range. I run my turd hard & have broken the starboard drive 3 times & never the port. I spin my propellers in.
Why it is the way it is I have no idea, but I sure would like to not have that problem & would really like to afford to fix it correctly with the IMCO SCX drive or Arneson's, but those options cost more than the boat is worth.

I say u need to throttle the boat a little better and also balance it.
Move some stuff in the engine compartment to the port, batt ect., to make sure its level in the water in running condition !!!!:cheers2:

 

[mikebrls]

thanks for the "driving lessons" but that's not what i'm looking for.
I'm looking for some technical input. I have a 1994 std bravo and the boat been hell and back with no drive issues. Raced back in the 80's and i don't do the hole shots so it's not driving lessons i'm interested in. I been using the sticks for over 3 decades, but i appreciate the comments.
The issues is why so manny upper drivshafts show wear from the "pin gear".
Is it the pin gear problem or the shaft. Whatever it is, shouldn't merc do something about it? Due to it's a common and frequent issue. Standard bravos don't seem to have this.

maybe merc, knows about this and they keep it that way so they can make $$$$$$$$$$$$ and sell part's

 

[Knot 4 Me]

I have IMCO Extreme's on my 29 Baja. The motors are Whippled 454's that make somewhere in the 650hp range. I run my turd hard & have broken the starboard drive 3 times & never the port. I spin my propellers in.
Why it is the way it is I have no idea, but I sure would like to not have that problem & would really like to afford to fix it correctly with the IMCO SCX drive or Arneson's, but those options cost more than the boat is worth.

Spinning the props in, I belieive your starboard drive is running off the top gear. Are you having failures in the top end involving breaking the top gear and blowing the bearing cap off?

 

[Bad Idea Baja]

Spinning the props in, I belieive your starboard drive is running off the top gear. Are you having failures in the top end involving breaking the top gear and blowing the bearing cap off?

The top gear always is the one that breaks, but I haven't had a top cap blow off.

As far as balancing the boat goes. If it got balanced any better I could haul it on a 1" piece of flat iron. That & I don't fly the boat like some guys do. I do agree that Bravo life is mostly in the operator's throttle hand.

I believe I have a bad case on that side. It measured out of tolerance last time it was apart so I replaced it & it went an entire season without failure.