MikeyFIN
Competitor
In order not to get offtopic in Warpath and other topics around racecars and racing I though this would be a good start...
the best handling car is the Fastest is all I can say...
I have wrenched Karting ICA, Karting FIA Formula250´s,Late Model ASA stock cars, Formula Fords, Formula3´s, FIA GT3´s and raced personally Karts and Tin tops for a while so as a Semi pro mech been from USA to Russia in racing I think I have something to bring to the table.
There´s proof of Shelby once putting down his 427 cars and bytheway 427´s was never raced by the Shelby American race team.
Maybe he was just frustrated because at the time 1966-69 there was still unsold 1965 427 Cobras ?
That´s why they became S/C as the needed number (100) was never filled to homologate them for international racing and was sold as streetcars.
Ferrari 250GTO relied and "fulfilled" the rule by stating it´s the raceversion of a normal 250GT... ( which had a book full of versions...).
Fact is also by the time the 427 came into play it was obsolete and non-competitive internationally, the mid engined cars just walked away.
The Porsche 917 story is also interesting..25 supposed to be made to get them homolageted and while the FIA officials came over there was only one or two cars in the front on the line up in running order.
The rest was just dummies with many parts made of wood, like the ignition key which was required per rules.
How did they get by it?
Well just offered the officials to take anyone of the line up to the test track and fired one up...
Ferrari´s not the only one to know how to get the unfair advantage.
Porsche917´s turned into a Gem especially the Spiders thru the testing of Mark Donohue and Leo Kinnunen who I happen to know personally with their help and John Willment came the idea to make the 917K to create downforce and slow them down.
Both happened to like their cars just as many racers do neutral on full power with a mild understeer before. Actually I have a hard time outside the Rally car drivers having someone not wanting their cars that way.
The Porsche was also in the beginning and evil car and the Horsepowers was at the start only 650hp and the last one Kinnunen drove 1974 had 1560hp available still the 650hp could intimidate the Turbos on a given day.
I have records showing that AAW racing team used many times the less powerful versions because Leo favoured them as in order to be as much as possible on the throttle you had to have the car somewhat in balance.
Also the Targa Florio 1970 showed that Gulf Porsche also there was better suited with the more nimble 908-3 as Leo Kinnunen broke that lap record to stay by a wide margin and they decided to park the 917K´s.
Regarding brute strength vs handling the third time being a handling being a winning situation I have a very close friend who raced with Felipe Massa etc. in tin cars with a 300hp 2400 lbs Audi A4 Supertouring car equaling the lap time here on a track that´s known to be the mini Nurburgring against a 936hp Audi IMSA GTO weighing the same with twice the size of the tires and and internationally recognized driver behind the wheel also.
The last proof is of 2008 with on the same day and same driver and same class cars, FIA GT3, with equal conditions and equipment: A Lambo Gallardo with much less hp and same weight as the Oreca Viper was a second faster and the Lambo has smaller tires in the rear.
So while I was still being the head mech for the Viper and also wrenched the Lambo that season we still clinched no1 at the end of the season but next year the Gallardos took a landslide bumping the Viper off the podium despite in my book a better driver and even letting 2 Porsches in front on the final standings, go figure?
It´s also been proven (by a test of our team with Alcons vs Brembos for example and various others) that when you have 4 wheels taking down the power it takes less time to slow down and get on the gas than having a poor handling car that you can´t get on the throttle soon enough despite having a lot more horsepower.
In the end you just eat up your tires and see the other one go in the distance.
If we look today at Rally cars of today a 300hp WRC car will eat the B-grouper any day which had over X2 that the first time out.
Guys( Men actually) close here tested the first Audi S1 prototype spinning it´s all 4 wheels on tarmac at over 140 when floored... happened on a public road closeby and there was PROOF.
Hannu Mikkola who became the WC with Audi told in the beginning drop 250hp of it and it will be a world champion....
the best handling car is the Fastest is all I can say...
I have wrenched Karting ICA, Karting FIA Formula250´s,Late Model ASA stock cars, Formula Fords, Formula3´s, FIA GT3´s and raced personally Karts and Tin tops for a while so as a Semi pro mech been from USA to Russia in racing I think I have something to bring to the table.
There´s proof of Shelby once putting down his 427 cars and bytheway 427´s was never raced by the Shelby American race team.
Maybe he was just frustrated because at the time 1966-69 there was still unsold 1965 427 Cobras ?
That´s why they became S/C as the needed number (100) was never filled to homologate them for international racing and was sold as streetcars.
Ferrari 250GTO relied and "fulfilled" the rule by stating it´s the raceversion of a normal 250GT... ( which had a book full of versions...).
Fact is also by the time the 427 came into play it was obsolete and non-competitive internationally, the mid engined cars just walked away.
The Porsche 917 story is also interesting..25 supposed to be made to get them homolageted and while the FIA officials came over there was only one or two cars in the front on the line up in running order.
The rest was just dummies with many parts made of wood, like the ignition key which was required per rules.
How did they get by it?
Well just offered the officials to take anyone of the line up to the test track and fired one up...
Ferrari´s not the only one to know how to get the unfair advantage.
Porsche917´s turned into a Gem especially the Spiders thru the testing of Mark Donohue and Leo Kinnunen who I happen to know personally with their help and John Willment came the idea to make the 917K to create downforce and slow them down.
Both happened to like their cars just as many racers do neutral on full power with a mild understeer before. Actually I have a hard time outside the Rally car drivers having someone not wanting their cars that way.
The Porsche was also in the beginning and evil car and the Horsepowers was at the start only 650hp and the last one Kinnunen drove 1974 had 1560hp available still the 650hp could intimidate the Turbos on a given day.
I have records showing that AAW racing team used many times the less powerful versions because Leo favoured them as in order to be as much as possible on the throttle you had to have the car somewhat in balance.
Also the Targa Florio 1970 showed that Gulf Porsche also there was better suited with the more nimble 908-3 as Leo Kinnunen broke that lap record to stay by a wide margin and they decided to park the 917K´s.
Regarding brute strength vs handling the third time being a handling being a winning situation I have a very close friend who raced with Felipe Massa etc. in tin cars with a 300hp 2400 lbs Audi A4 Supertouring car equaling the lap time here on a track that´s known to be the mini Nurburgring against a 936hp Audi IMSA GTO weighing the same with twice the size of the tires and and internationally recognized driver behind the wheel also.
The last proof is of 2008 with on the same day and same driver and same class cars, FIA GT3, with equal conditions and equipment: A Lambo Gallardo with much less hp and same weight as the Oreca Viper was a second faster and the Lambo has smaller tires in the rear.
So while I was still being the head mech for the Viper and also wrenched the Lambo that season we still clinched no1 at the end of the season but next year the Gallardos took a landslide bumping the Viper off the podium despite in my book a better driver and even letting 2 Porsches in front on the final standings, go figure?
It´s also been proven (by a test of our team with Alcons vs Brembos for example and various others) that when you have 4 wheels taking down the power it takes less time to slow down and get on the gas than having a poor handling car that you can´t get on the throttle soon enough despite having a lot more horsepower.
In the end you just eat up your tires and see the other one go in the distance.
If we look today at Rally cars of today a 300hp WRC car will eat the B-grouper any day which had over X2 that the first time out.
Guys( Men actually) close here tested the first Audi S1 prototype spinning it´s all 4 wheels on tarmac at over 140 when floored... happened on a public road closeby and there was PROOF.
Hannu Mikkola who became the WC with Audi told in the beginning drop 250hp of it and it will be a world champion....
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. I am being serious.
