I'm having an ethical issue... And want some input

[Buoy]

What if you work for a Co. that you wouldn't buy the product they produce because of quality?
This past week, I "bought" from the competition because my own employer Co. would have made junk in comparison.
What do you do when you need a job, and have one that you hate?
But, you can't find anyone hiring in your field.
I'm looking for another job, but in the meantime, for a paycheck, I'm telling people to do things that are "in my blood and brain" wrong, but that is what Corporate wants, and they say it is "within tolerance", and therefore acceptable.
I'm so disgusted that all I do is produce something that is pretty (cosmetically), profitable, and is functional (just within standards)...
I hold myself to a higher standard of quality than this.
At times, I've seen where upper Mgmt has passed items that didn't meet standards just to make sure they went out the door.
I'm having a huge issue about this, but at the same time, I don't want to create waves - I need the job, even though I hate it.

 

[Wobble]

What if you work for a Co. that you wouldn't buy the product they produce because of quality?
This past week, I "bought" from the competition because my own employer Co. would have made junk in comparison.
What do you do when you need a job, and have one that you hate?
But, you can't find anyone hiring in your field.
I'm looking for another job, but in the meantime, for a paycheck, I'm telling people to do things that are "in my blood and brain" wrong, but that is what Corporate wants, and they say it is "within tolerance", and therefore acceptable.
I'm so disgusted that all I do is produce something that is pretty (cosmetically), profitable, and is functional (just within standards)...
I hold myself to a higher standard of quality than this.
At times, I've seen where upper Mgmt has passed items that didn't meet standards just to make sure they went out the door.
I'm having a huge issue about this, but at the same time, I don't want to create waves - I need the job, even though I hate it.

Do they have a suggestions box?

Seriously though, every job that requires working for someone else is going to require some serious compromise.

 

[Dude! Sweet!]

Tim, what a catch 22. I want to tell you to say f*ck it, collect your money and live for the weekends, but at the same time, I believe that the just "just get paid"mentality is the root of why we are so comletely f*cked right now.

Tim I'm completely impressed with your integrity. Of course that's coming from a guy who just fell down the stairs trying to unplug his inflatable halloween decorations... :sifone:

 

[phragle]

what is the job worth to you?? are you selling yourself or someone else's product? are you misrepresenting something or are you selling Hyundai's when you would rather sell Mercedes?? if it's a job, and you are selling something that people want and it meets their needs safely? Where do YOU draw the line? I work in healthcare..sometimes we cant fix people and they die, sometimes mistakes happen... A farmer raises cattle, they become big macs...big macs make people fat and die early... Would you own/run a bar? people drink drive and die...they become alcoholics and destroy families.. Tim we can say all sorts of things..but you are they only one that can draw the line between whats personal and whats strictly business. I think the decision should be based on asking yourself a couple of questions..

sure what your selling may not be the best quality but..
1. are you being deliberately deceitfully?
2. are your actions putting people directly in harms way?
3. are you FORCING anyone to do anything, or are they purchasing under their own freewill and their own due diligence?

 

[Dude! Sweet!]

How much better would the world be if the only question was "do I believe in what I'm doing?"

 

[JupiterSunsation]

Sounds like Bouy is working at a Ford dealer dreaming about his Chevy....

Or selling Fountains and dreaming about __________

 

[Ratickle]

what is the job worth to you?? are you selling yourself or someone else's product? are you misrepresenting something or are you selling Hyundai's when you would rather sell Mercedes?? if it's a job, and you are selling something that people want and it meets their needs safely? Where do YOU draw the line? I work in healthcare..sometimes we cant fix people and they die, sometimes mistakes happen... A farmer raises cattle, they become big macs...big macs make people fat and die early... Would you own/run a bar? people drink drive and die...they become alcoholics and destroy families.. Tim we can say all sorts of things..but you are they only one that can draw the line between whats personal and whats strictly business. I think the decision should be based on asking yourself a couple of questions..

sure what your selling may not be the best quality but..
1. are you being deliberately deceitfully?
2. are your actions putting people directly in harms way?
3. are you FORCING anyone to do anything, or are they purchasing under their own freewill and their own due diligence?

Rob, one of your best posts ever....

 

[Audiofn]

Bouy if you are making parts that are just cheap then I do not see an issue with that. In fact I see that it is the companies responsibility to itself to make the product as profitable as it can while keeping the contract. It can suck when you want to product the highest quality part and you know you are not. I have a very sucessful customer that makes vacume cleaners. His Vacumes are cheap and kind of junky. I purchased an Electrolux because I wanted the best vacume that I could. Well my Electrolux was 1400 bucks and his "junky" vacumes are 200 bucks. They both fit a niche in the market. Sounds like your company is doing the same just making the lower end "thing". Now if you do not want to be making that lower end thing any more then that is a decision you hae to make.

 

[fund razor]

Let me put this in perspective for you, Tim.

 

[Ratickle]

Rob's answer is very good.

Way back I was lucky enough to get asked to participate in a special program at a college for upper management training. A couple things that came out of that were;

Never compromise you principles, morals, and ethics. Breaking the law is betterr to do than those three. Every time you do, makes it easier to go farther the next time. If you are really compromising one of those three things, then you have a tough decision to make. If they are producing a lower class product, which meets all requirements of safety for the consumer, then I think you are comparing the difference between buying a Cadillac and a Chevy. They may have the exact same components, one is just done right. At a much higher price.....

The other thing you always have to realize, Why do people do what they do? Because they think they're right. There is never, I repeat never, any other reason. So, if you want to change their culture, you have to figure out why they think they're right and change that. It is not something to get upset over, stress about, or complain about. It is just something to figure out why, decide if it should be changed and if so, how to best accomplish that. The reasons may be good to them. They are producing a product which meets standards, at a cheaper price. Therefore their customers can buy it for less and they can still make profits and stay in business. Win-Win.....

High morals, ethics, and principles are a good thing. Never compromise them. However, also never let them get in the way of improving things. If they are not compromised, making a difference by figuring out improvements to implement which help others, benefits all.

I firmly believe in lists of pros and cons. Write it without deep thought, then read it and decide your dilemma. I've helped companies improve who I wouldn't buy from either. Doesn't mean they did not fill a required niche to help others get through their days.

I've also bought products from companies I would never work for because of their ethics (lack thereof)..........

 

[fund razor]

Besides... every generation's brownfield is a prior generation's advancement in technology.

 

[fund razor]

Rob's answer is very good.

Way back I was lucky enough to get asked to participate in a special program at a college for upper management training. A couple things that came out of that were;

Never compromise you principles, morals, and ethics. Breaking the law is betterr to do than those three. Every time you do, makes it easier to go farther the next time. If you are really compromising one of those three things, then you have a tough decision to make. If they are producing a lower class product, which meets all requirements of safety for the consumer, then I think you are comparing the difference between buying a Cadillac and a Chevy. They may have the exact same components, one is just done right. At a much higher price.....

The other thing you always have to realize, Why do people do what they do? Because they think they're right. There is never, I repeat never, any other reason. So, if you want to change their culture, you have to figure out why they think they're right and change that. It is not something to get upset over, stress about, or complain about. It is just something to figure out why, decide if it should be changed and if so, how to best accomplish that. The reasons may be good to them. They are producing a product which meets standards, at a cheaper price. Therefore their customers can buy it for less and they can still make profits and stay in business. Win-Win.....

High morals, ethics, and principles are a good thing. Never compromise them. However, also never let them get in the way of improving things. If they are not compromised, making a difference by figuring out improvements to implement which help others, benefits all.

Yep!
The major cause of stress in life is knowing the right thing to do and not doing it.

 

[VtSteve]

Just hang in there. Sounds like your best bet is to continue to work and look for another job with the competition. You'll have all your ducks in a row when you can work for, and use the products of a company that you admire.

Make sure to spell that out in the next interview as well.

 

[MacGyver]

Tim, the economy is on the upswing. Hopefully you can find a more rewarding job in the near future. But until then, hang in there and be thankful you have steady income.

As for the suggestion box idea, I bet they have a security camera positioned on it so management can see who are the authors of the suggestions.

 

[Davidmnc]

You have a job..........be thankfull for it. Take advantage of any and all opportunities to improve the product. If you stay with the company position your self to be a leader in quality control and implementation. Manufacturing a lower end product is a part of the real world, but producing a lower end product that is a better value be it price or quality than the competition is going to create success for your company. Be the guy who helps lead the charge toward a better low end product. Does not mean you have to buy it your self, but it can be very satisfying knowing you are a part of the improvement.

 

[insanity]

You have a job..........be thankfull for it. Take advantage of any and all opportunities to improve the product. If you stay with the company position your self to be a leader in quality control and implementation. Manufacturing a lower end product is a part of the real world, but producing a lower end product that is a better value be it price or quality than the competition is going to create success for your company. Be the guy who helps lead the charge toward a better low end product. Does not mean you have to buy it your self, but it can be very satisfying knowing you are a part of the improvement.

Very well said.

If you feel that strongly about putting out a crappy product, do what you can to try and improve quality. It seems most of the time if a company has a product that is maginal or just out of tolerance, they send it out anyhow. Banking on the chance that more of the defective product gets sold than gets sent back. It's the way the game is played, not much difference than when the car companies run the number to decide if its cheaper to have a recall or payou lawsuits from a defect.

"The game is to be sold, not to be told" :sifone:

 

[Davidmnc]

Very well said. :sifone:

****! Now I am have to delete the post. It's gonna ruin my reputation for worthless uninsightful posts! :leaving:

 

[Ratickle]

****! Now I am have to delete the post. It's gonna ruin my reputation for worthless uninsightful posts! :leaving:

Can't have that........:ack2:

 

[Expensive Date]

Tough question unless you are a Field rep and in direct contact with your customers I would not worry about it.There are a lot of products offered by my suppliers that I won't sell I pick and chose from different manufacturers.But I have that option because its my company and I am directly responsible for the items performance.If you are not stay till you find something better or become there new competitor.

 

[Geronimo36]

You have a job..........

Don't quit without having something else lined up and for sure don't quit unless you have "12" months savings ready to go....

These days it's taking people a solid 3-6 months to find new jobs and most of those jobs are for less pay...

I know what you're going thru and I've personally weighed the consequenses the last year or so and I've stayed put because the grass isn't greener anywhere else right now.