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gasket sealer for riser gaskets
- Thread starter CAPM KURT
- Start date
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
Jim was just talking about this with Drpete in the engine surge thread....
I'm pretty sure that's in the Engine Tech section.....
Take a look and let us know if it answers your question.
Ratickle
Founding Member / Super Moderator
Here's the link. Start on about post 28. If you don't know, Jim is Mobilemercman and does this for a living.
The thread is enginemisfiring, not surging... Sorry.
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7796&page=2
The thread is enginemisfiring, not surging... Sorry.
http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7796&page=2
CAPM KURT
New member
thanks Ratickle
just to keep things simple, here's what i posted over in that thread.
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Good advice m.m.m. That's what I've used before is the Permatex. Just this week I've ben talking to Loctite just to try and get the best sealer I can as I'm fixin to change mine on my 3 year old 5.7liter that are leaking on the outside.
The Permatex is good to 400 degrees. I'm sure the exhaust gases are way up there but the actual metal surfaces are much lower, who knows exactly-maybe over 400 right on the edge of the exh side but way less on the water side.
I bought some Loctite Hi Temp Gasket Maker part # 30558, (good to 600F.) Put a bead out just to look at it-looks thicker like the old #2Permatex form-a-gasket but different smell and dried much quicker than Permatex so it's not just a similar product. Looks like it would work even better. It's non-hardening also. I'm going to try it next week or so.
Volvo Penta has just gone to thin metal gaskets with a crimped ridge in them. Cannot get the old paper type for my 5.7L from Volvo. I think I'll try one of the metal type with the Loctite 30558(even though they strictly say to put the metal one on completely dry) and one paper type aftermarket gasket. I'm just not sure about the metal type!
Do you have any experience using a gasket maker hitemp silicone on the elbows?? Loctite suggested it may work also(Loctite # 5920). Just have to make sure its a sensor safe one. But they aren't any higher temp than the 30558 - 600 degrees. Never heard of anyone using silicone. Probably not any better than the Perma or Loctite.
thanks for any advice
just to keep things simple, here's what i posted over in that thread.
.
.
Good advice m.m.m. That's what I've used before is the Permatex. Just this week I've ben talking to Loctite just to try and get the best sealer I can as I'm fixin to change mine on my 3 year old 5.7liter that are leaking on the outside.
The Permatex is good to 400 degrees. I'm sure the exhaust gases are way up there but the actual metal surfaces are much lower, who knows exactly-maybe over 400 right on the edge of the exh side but way less on the water side.
I bought some Loctite Hi Temp Gasket Maker part # 30558, (good to 600F.) Put a bead out just to look at it-looks thicker like the old #2Permatex form-a-gasket but different smell and dried much quicker than Permatex so it's not just a similar product. Looks like it would work even better. It's non-hardening also. I'm going to try it next week or so.
Volvo Penta has just gone to thin metal gaskets with a crimped ridge in them. Cannot get the old paper type for my 5.7L from Volvo. I think I'll try one of the metal type with the Loctite 30558(even though they strictly say to put the metal one on completely dry) and one paper type aftermarket gasket. I'm just not sure about the metal type!
Do you have any experience using a gasket maker hitemp silicone on the elbows?? Loctite suggested it may work also(Loctite # 5920). Just have to make sure its a sensor safe one. But they aren't any higher temp than the 30558 - 600 degrees. Never heard of anyone using silicone. Probably not any better than the Perma or Loctite.
thanks for any advice
Bertram38
New member
DRY< DRY< DRY, is the answere, Merc makes the best gasket in the World, kinda has lead coating on tin inner stamping. If Mercruiser does not use on it new, why change now. Nope, always dry for every gasket except blower gaskets need to be greased, swedging is a problem there without the butter inbetween. Oh yeah, good luck. My 2 cents.
B38
B38
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
Bertram you cannot compare assembly line to real world service. Mercury recommends perfect seal in many places where gaskets and water meet. Perfect seal=Permatex aviation gasket sealer and it is the best thing you can use. Better than nothing, better than any RTV or High temp silicone. All I can do is suggest. You have to deal with your own mistakes not me. Best of luck to you.
Ditto! 30 years with perfect seal never a problem.
Bertram38
New member
What Gaskets are you all refering too here, I stated Factory mercs gaskets for the risers, Instructions state dry install. I have had everything rott away except merc kick @ss gaskets. Nothing in the World I stated is better than a Merc Gasket on a riser.
Now if you would eliminate the gasket and use the sealer, than I agree with Mercs quality sealant, but even that in my eyes is iffy on a riser.
Once again, my 2 cents
We all have differant backgrounds with sealants, and I have seen disaster in many applications using sealants. Improper cleaning, too much used breaks off and flows through passages and plugs important steam holes, valves, pumps, injectors. The USER holds all responsibility when useing sealants. Most Parts suppliers void warrenties if sealant is used upon installation.
Once again, My 2 cents.
:boxing_smiley:
Now if you would eliminate the gasket and use the sealer, than I agree with Mercs quality sealant, but even that in my eyes is iffy on a riser.
Once again, my 2 cents
We all have differant backgrounds with sealants, and I have seen disaster in many applications using sealants. Improper cleaning, too much used breaks off and flows through passages and plugs important steam holes, valves, pumps, injectors. The USER holds all responsibility when useing sealants. Most Parts suppliers void warrenties if sealant is used upon installation.
Once again, My 2 cents.
:boxing_smiley:
Bertram38
New member
I think you didn't read the thread correctly = Riser Gaskets sealant
Mercman, your not god, nor am I. for once I can say, I do have the Background of many years such as you. There is a place for sealant in every App'. Installed in a workmanship like maner will end with good results.
Never state I have to deal with my own mistakes, creates a large head in your case cause you do not know me. nor ones background.
I have said enough.
Good luck
Bertram38
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
Bertram, I am sorry I have offended you. I did not mean to. I did not suggest the sealer in place of the gasket. The thread first asked Anybody use a gasket sealer on the exhaust manifold riser "elbow" gaskets?
I should have addressed the second part of my suggestion directly to Capt Kurt for he is the one experimenting with other sealers.
I should have addressed the second part of my suggestion directly to Capt Kurt for he is the one experimenting with other sealers.
MOBILEMERCMAN
Founding Member / Competitor
Just for kicks I scanned a page from a '87 Merc manual and another from '97. Both refer to perfect seal.
To be more specific there were a couple occasions where sealant was not noted note to be used one was on closed cooling systems with extension blocks and the other was the foil coated gasket for SS risers. The Foil gaskets were developed in attempt to combat a leaking when using dissimilar metals were used pairing risers and manifolds. This first happened with the Merc 4 cylinder{ aluminum and cast iron} and later the V8 risers{ SS and cast iron}. In both cases numerous motors suffered damage and the dissimilar material use was abandoned.
To be more specific there were a couple occasions where sealant was not noted note to be used one was on closed cooling systems with extension blocks and the other was the foil coated gasket for SS risers. The Foil gaskets were developed in attempt to combat a leaking when using dissimilar metals were used pairing risers and manifolds. This first happened with the Merc 4 cylinder{ aluminum and cast iron} and later the V8 risers{ SS and cast iron}. In both cases numerous motors suffered damage and the dissimilar material use was abandoned.
Capm Kurt, SOS is great for answered questions. Hope everything works out.
CAPM KURT
New member
thanks sincerely Rat, Bert, and M&M(MMM) for the info. I always say, there's nothing like experience, that's why I asked. You know the old expression...a little bit of everything and a lot of nothing, well that's my "experience". Just been takin care of my own stuff(mostly) for about 30 years now.
PS: Hey, that's kinda got a ring to it--"Rat, Bert, and M&M"
PS: Hey, that's kinda got a ring to it--"Rat, Bert, and M&M"
CAPM KURT
New member
You know when you call most dealers on something like this trying to make it better, they seem to just say "hunh? what?". They don't seem to knowledgeable or concerned about trying to improve on the factory's "standard" recommendations. I guess in today's world they can't do it. Thats why I asked the question here.
Merc Man I don't want to "experiment" too much or too far away. I had even thought about the anerobic stuff-some of those rubbery types can bond really good. But I'll tke ya'lls advice, like you said, it can cost ya to play too much. I'm going to try one side with the Aviation, other with the Hi Temp Gasket Maker part # 30558 and look at it down the road. It looked like tough stuff too and a higher temp.
Funny the Volvo factory just recently went to a thin metal gasket on the stock cast iron elbows. At least on my 5.7L. Not sure why. Maybe their std gaskets not holding up. They don't supply the old paper type anymore. Could get aftermarket probably but don't know if they would be as good.
The metal gasket instructions said they had a "special" coating-not to use anything else. I expected a thicker rubber coating or something. The coating is just like a super thin paint coating maybe or corrosion or bonding, not sure. But once again, I agree with ya'll that a sealer will help longer term in keeping(especially salt water) from working away at the edges of the surface under the gasket, even on the metal one. I suspect a metal one could probably stand to gain from a sealer more than a paper type, cause this gasket is .010 thick solid metal.
I did work for a Mercury dealership about 30 years ago as the service mgr, I recall when we talked about salt, the factory said they had their corrosion labs, etc. I said you can't understand until you get to the real world, and at that time they didn't look at that enough.
Merc Man I don't want to "experiment" too much or too far away. I had even thought about the anerobic stuff-some of those rubbery types can bond really good. But I'll tke ya'lls advice, like you said, it can cost ya to play too much. I'm going to try one side with the Aviation, other with the Hi Temp Gasket Maker part # 30558 and look at it down the road. It looked like tough stuff too and a higher temp.
Funny the Volvo factory just recently went to a thin metal gasket on the stock cast iron elbows. At least on my 5.7L. Not sure why. Maybe their std gaskets not holding up. They don't supply the old paper type anymore. Could get aftermarket probably but don't know if they would be as good.
The metal gasket instructions said they had a "special" coating-not to use anything else. I expected a thicker rubber coating or something. The coating is just like a super thin paint coating maybe or corrosion or bonding, not sure. But once again, I agree with ya'll that a sealer will help longer term in keeping(especially salt water) from working away at the edges of the surface under the gasket, even on the metal one. I suspect a metal one could probably stand to gain from a sealer more than a paper type, cause this gasket is .010 thick solid metal.
I did work for a Mercury dealership about 30 years ago as the service mgr, I recall when we talked about salt, the factory said they had their corrosion labs, etc. I said you can't understand until you get to the real world, and at that time they didn't look at that enough.
CAPM KURT
New member
Has anybody used the new METAL riser gaskets that Volvo has switched to?
They do not offer the paper type any more through Volvo parts. They are thin, solid metal, .010 thick with a crimp all along the middle. Sure is a change of pace for an elbow gasket. I'm leary of it. I'm going to put it on with some of the aviation grade gasket sealer.
They do not offer the paper type any more through Volvo parts. They are thin, solid metal, .010 thick with a crimp all along the middle. Sure is a change of pace for an elbow gasket. I'm leary of it. I'm going to put it on with some of the aviation grade gasket sealer.
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