Hull Issues (again)

[Perlmudder]

So if anybody remembers, last year we posted some pics of the gelcoat on the front of our boat chipping off and spider cracking right on the bow. Well, it went to Olsen Brothers marina over the winter and they reinforced the bow by cutting the liner in the front anchor locker and putting more fiberglass in, and then re gelcoating the front. It is going back this winter because the swim platform was never installed by the dealer correctly, and the stainless struts that hold it to the transom were just drilled and screwed in, no silicone or anything! I am worried about water intrusion considering the boat is 3 years old and sits in the water 3 months a year.

Well, we were washing it last Sunday after pulling it out of the water, and we noticed the formation of even more blisters. Last year it had 2 small ones on the back starboard corner and Larson said they would not fix them. Well now it has probably 6-10 near the bow. This makes me think something is very wrong.

My father is calling Larson this week, but I was hoping to get some opinions on what we should ask them to do. Is it completely out of line to ask them to perform a moisture test on the transom to see if it has taken on water? Should they be responsible for fixing the blisters? We had a Bayliner that sat in the water for 8 summers (24 months) and never even had one issue with the hull.


Soooo lets hear it folks!

Thanks!
- Josh

 

[DAREDEVIL]

So if anybody remembers, last year we posted some pics of the gelcoat on the front of our boat chipping off and spider cracking right on the bow. Well, it went to Olsen Brothers marina over the winter and they reinforced the bow by cutting the liner in the front anchor locker and putting more fiberglass in, and then re gelcoating the front. It is going back this winter because the swim platform was never installed by the dealer correctly, and the stainless struts that hold it to the transom were just drilled and screwed in, no silicone or anything! I am worried about water intrusion considering the boat is 3 years old and sits in the water 3 months a year.

Well, we were washing it last Sunday after pulling it out of the water, and we noticed the formation of even more blisters. Last year it had 2 small ones on the back starboard corner and Larson said they would not fix them. Well now it has probably 6-10 near the bow. This makes me think something is very wrong.

My father is calling Larson this week, but I was hoping to get some opinions on what we should ask them to do. Is it completely out of line to ask them to perform a moisture test on the transom to see if it has taken on water? Should they be responsible for fixing the blisters? We had a Bayliner that sat in the water for 8 summers (24 months) and never even had one issue with the hull.


Soooo lets hear it folks!

Thanks!
- Josh

Its called "OSMOSE",,gas build up between the gelcoat and glass,,,due to airpockets . and /or not fully cured resin.
Hell yeah, they should take care of it if its 3 year old.
Depends how big of a boat,,,on a 30 footer i would ask ~ 15 K to fix it.
Thats for the whole bottom ,not just 2 spots .....since it will be unfortanetley on the whole bottom in a bit.

Sorry:ack2:

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

* Main Entry: os·mo·sis
* Pronunciation: \äz-ˈmō-səs, äs-\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: New Latin, short for endosmosis
* Date: 1867

1 : movement of a solvent (as water) through a semipermeable membrane (as of a living cell) into a solution of higher solute concentration that tends to equalize the concentrations of solute on the two sides of the membrane
2 : a process of absorption or diffusion suggestive of the flow of osmotic action; especially : a usually effortless often unconscious assimilation <learned a number of languages by osmosis — Roger Kimball>

Gelcoat can absorb water over time. Generally companies will not cover it. It can happen separate form the curing problem Daredevil mentioned. Boats that stay in the water should be bottom painted in part to seal the bottom.

The water from improperly sealed transom is different. That is a matter of workmanship and it is NOT unreasonable to ask for them to stand behind it.

 

[Perlmudder]

So for the transom should I be asking them to do a moisture test? If it is rotted they should have to replace it I think.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

If you have a local surveyor or an experienced glass guy you can trust test it and/or inspect it you may be better served. It is unlikely the whole transom is wet. Generally only the area around the leak gets wet. It may not be rotten yet. It may be possible to open it and allow it to breath and dry. Wood can get wet and dry and not have a problem. It is the extended wet that is the problem. Rotten wood has a distinct smell. An experienced person can direct you. Once you know what the situation is you then involve the Manufacture. The manufacture may minimize the issue and offer only a quick and easy solution. I don't know. Just sharing my thoughts.

 

[Perlmudder]

here are some pics I snapped over the weekend of the blisters. are they filled with water or something? the middle of them looks to be black.

 

[Ratickle]

Yes, they have water in them.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

If you pop it it will likely have water in it. If left out they will eventually dry.

 

[Steve 1]

A couple things first external mixing gelcoat rigs sometimes give a streaky cure and second the gelcoat should be backed up with a vinylester resin skin out. The cure is grind/peel and replace the Gelcoat and checkmat.

 

[catastrophe]

Take the boat to Double R for an opinion and advice.

1 705 487 7575 Ask for Raymond.

 

[Perlmudder]

Hey guys! So my dad called Larson the other week. They said they would take no responsibility for the swim platform being installed incorrectly. I think that is absolutely crazy considering it was one of their dealers that installed it incorrectly in the first place. As for the blisters, they said they would take care of some of them, as long as we bottom painted the boat after. After telling them we have dozens of friends with similar boats that all leave them in the water all summer with no issues, they responded with it was not their problem, and that they had switched types of gel coat due to government regulations. My dad talked to marina in Cobourg, Ontario that will do the work and submit it under warranty. At this point I feel like we might be better off getting it fixed and selling it ASAP. Seems like from here on out Larson will not cover anything, and we are still going to have issues.

So, do you guys think it is worth it to call Larson back and continue to argue or just get it fixed and sell it? I really am not a fan of bottom paint (It looks like crap), and I feel that it a temporary band-aid to a continuing problem.

 

[Airpacker]

Bottom paint is not a bandaid to a continuing problem. It is something that is done on all kinds of boats that spend months sitting in the water to prevent the exact issue you are experiencing from happening.



Gel coat is semi pourus. It will absorb water eventually.

How often do you pull the boat out and wax the bottom? Lake Erie is no doubt a little corrosive.

 

[DollaBill]

i'm too tired to comment now josh. I've dealt with sooo many of these. I'll tell you in the morning

 

[Perlmudder]

Bottom paint is not a bandaid to a continuing problem. It is something that is done on all kinds of boats that spend months sitting in the water to prevent the exact issue you are experiencing from happening.



Gel coat is semi pourus. It will absorb water eventually.

How often do you pull the boat out and wax the bottom? Lake Erie is no doubt a little corrosive.

The boat usually comes out every 2 weeks or so and is cleaned inside and out. We pressure wash it, then acid wash it, then wax it. I guess I am just sort of upset that we had a bunch of boats in the past that all sat in the water and never had any of these issues. We also have many friends that have similar boats and they are not having these issues.

 

[Ratickle]

The boat usually comes out every 2 weeks or so and is cleaned inside and out. We pressure wash it, then acid wash it, then wax it. I guess I am just sort of upset that we had a bunch of boats in the past that all sat in the water and never had any of these issues. We also have many friends that have similar boats and they are not having these issues.

I'd get info from a Marine Expert, GlassDave or Artie maybe, and then depending on what they say decide if you want an attorney to write a letter or just take their settlement in money and get it done the best you can afford.

And I've also seen blisters under bottom paint......

 

[Indy]

If I'm not mistaken doesn't the type of resin used cause or prevent this? I know GP resins don't hold up that well, but using vinylester resins hold up much better. Maybe Larson is still using GP resins?

 

[DollaBill]

Good morning! LOL.

ALL FG boats will get osmotic blisters over time, even when sealed with a "blister coat" of some kind. FG (woven roving) has visible and microscopically visible "hairs" of glass strains. The smallest tend to poke through the gel coat and act like a wick of a candle. thats, basically, how most water enters and then rests between the gel and glass. it then reacts and the water and gases cause the blister.

First, you need to repair the blisters properly. Then coat/seal the bottom. Being that you have a short season you shouldnt have a problem drying the hull out over the winter.

As for mfg's warranty, I've had many mfg's cover the problem within the first year, but after that it's on you.

 

[Ratickle]

And the proper way to repair the blisters and reseal would be?????

 

[Steve 1]

Vinylester’s in most cases use an Epoxy resin for a backbone they would be the logical choice for Gelcoat backup, but again Shop practices and the cheaper resin’s play a large role blistering, gelcoat MEKP initiated on the low side and a polyester resin skincoat again low side are the usual culprits in this.

There was a whole cottage industry created around Gelcoat peelers years back when a rash of this hit the industry.

 

[Brownie]

It is the fault of the resin company/OPEC/and a lot of mistakes. After the petro crisis of 1973, and the propensity of the fast food business to use styrofoam cups and boxes, the resin supply of styrene dried up (Hah!) for the boat builders. For a time, every boat that stayed in the water had some osmosis damage. The dark "water" in the bubble is cobalt from the promoter in the resin. Big companies went out of business trying "do the right thing". Notably, Uniflite, Tollycraft, etc. They don't hurt anything except feelings. Hell, they probably add some flotation, if you get enough of them