Very Exciting News

[fund razor]

Please do a complete search before posting! http://www.mlm-thewholetruth.com/net...r-against-acn/

Now you just underestimated TCEd.
See: propensity.
Don't assume that he or others have not done more complete searches on both ACN and you, just because he dropped one link on the thread.

[TCEd]

Please do a complete search before posting! http://www.mlm-thewholetruth.com/net...r-against-acn/

Fleg,
How about I post the link to ACN's powerpoint presentations on how to recruit, how to sell etc. I really like the part where ACN suggests you start with your family and friends. Yea, sell them a video phone. OH, wait, I need to sell another one so they can see each other, and another, and another. But ACN only contracted to buy 200K phones which is a rather small network but you have 300K sales people selling those 200K phones. Lots of room for individual profit.
I think you're either naive, lazy or an opportunist. I also think you're initial post here was an attempt to recruit for personal profit.
Also as Fund said I can have a propensity towards posting information I feel supports my position and/or decisions. I'm retired and have some free time occasionally, maybe I should send you the entry fee and sell my 87 y/o mom a video phone ? or should I continue volunteering in the community and feel good about it ?
ed
I also did a negative post on your OSO thread,
ed

[TCEd]

Fleg,
My wife and I are going to Mexico Thur. morning. Could you try to resolve everything by tomorrow evening ?
ed

[fund razor]

Point of order. I know of none of Ed's propensities. I was referencing aforementioned propensity of Jeff to misread his audience.

Resume resolution.

[fund razor]

Ya know... there is some copious cut and pasting going on in some posts.

[FLEG]

Ya know... there is some copious cut and pasting going on in some posts.

Yep! If its something that you agree with or believe is it not allowed?

[FLEG]

Fleg,
How about I post the link to ACN's powerpoint presentations on how to recruit, how to sell etc. I really like the part where ACN suggests you start with your family and friends. Yea, sell them a video phone. OH, wait, I need to sell another one so they can see each other, and another, and another. But ACN only contracted to buy 200K phones which is a rather small network but you have 300K sales people selling those 200K phones. Lots of room for individual profit.
I think you're either naive, lazy or an opportunist. I also think you're initial post here was an attempt to recruit for personal profit.
Also as Fund said I can have a propensity towards posting information I feel supports my position and/or decisions. I'm retired and have some free time occasionally, maybe I should send you the entry fee and sell my 87 y/o mom a video phone ? or should I continue volunteering in the community and feel good about it ?
ed
I also did a negative post on your OSO thread,
ed

I'm soRry I have a propensity of posting that I know first hand that the A C N system works if you work! Our organization is at TC level getting ready to pop RVP level which means we have helped 4 people to te TC level and working on helping lots more to acheive our goal of SVP! You can achieve whatever you want with this conpany as long as you work and help people PERIOD!

[fund razor]

Yep! If its something that you agree with or believe is it not allowed?

Most experienced forum users cite the source when they are not the author. You can do whatever you want, but typically, cutting and pasting but not citing a source has negative ramifications for credibility. When you author 15 word blasts containing multiple errors, but suddenly you become capable of multiple paragraphs containing points that have suddenly become salient, it creates additional disbelief for the reader. Most experienced forum users avoid this by citing a source. Technically, I should have cited a source for my initial chart. So I will now.

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/.../ACN%20MLM.htm

I am glad that you are enjoying your new word, propensity.

[FLEG]

Most experienced forum users cite the source when they are not the author. You can do whatever you want, but typically, cutting and pasting but not citing a source has negative ramifications for credibility. When you author 15 word blasts containing multiple errors, but suddenly you become capable of multiple paragraphs containing points that have suddenly become salient, it creates additional disbelief for the reader. Most experienced forum users avoid this by citing a source. Technically, I should have cited a source for my initial chart. So I will now.

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/.../ACN%20MLM.htm

I am glad that you are enjoying your new word, propensity.

Thank you for that link! I actually checked out many of the links associated with the one you posted. Actually one of the authors stated that hge had no idea wether A C N was a successful network marketing co or a fraud. I have stated this many times and it seems to not be heard so maybe hearing it from someone else will help! BTW this is copied and pasted from a link I found in your post. This is how ACN's bonus and pay structure really works:

ACN does not pay for acquiring new reps, at all, period. They pay only for customers acquired, and people can become customers if they decide not to become a rep. Even if they become a rep, they can still be a customer. It is a choice for the person to make learning about ACN and it's services and opportunity whether they will be a customer or a rep or both, or perhaps neither.

The bonuses are up front money paid for all of the customers signed up for services within a given time frame, usually weekly or monthly, depending on the billing volume produced by reps. The customer billing volume of the entire organization under each rep is what produces the back end residual income over the time that the rep builds his or her customer base with his or her team and their customers, as well as your own, continue paying their monthly bill.

If ACN paid for recruiting, it would be a pyramid scheme, which it is not. It is about acquiring a team of people to build a massive customer base, and an income from acquiring those customers both immediately with bonuses and throughout the future with residual income. Read and understand exactly how you are paid through ACN, and you can provide the correct information to the public about the ACN opportunity.

[fund razor]

Ok, TCEd needs to get on the road. Let's break this down:

The entire business plan relies on the continuous flow of funds upstream from the recruitment money, as it far exceeds any potential residual revenue from customers, especially at the RVP level. The business plan also relies on the high drop-out rate of recruits.
The enrollment fee of $499 is divided among the up-line as bonuses. This money is cleverly disguised as a Customer Acquisition Bonus when that new Rep becomes qualified.

Meanwhile, you need 256 reps in your downstream to reach level 7. And all of those 256 reps are trying to get 256 reps in their downstream.

Let's take a look at how one acheives $100,000 in residual income per annum:
(Source: the link you like.)
Take an example of 20 direct customers.
You will have one Rep for every 20 customers.
With your direct billing at $600 (30 bucks a month estimated telecom resale billing times 20) your commission is 2%
Commissions are 1/4 of 1 percent (0.0025) on your downline's customers 5-levels down.
(That's 7½ cents per customer!)

Calculate the balance of customers required in the downline.
$100,000 - (20 x $360 x 0.02 = $144) = $99,856 income required from downline.
$99,856 ÷ 0.0025 (1/4 percent) = $39,942,400 annual billing.
$39,942,400 ÷ $360 = 110,951 downline customers

All I need is 256 reps and 110,000 customers in my downline and I can make a living. Meanwhile... for every 256 reps...there is only ONE of ME. And 255 downline suckers.

But hey. It's just a guess.

[FLEG]

Most experienced forum users cite the source when they are not the author. You can do whatever you want, but typically, cutting and pasting but not citing a source has negative ramifications for credibility. When you author 15 word blasts containing multiple errors, but suddenly you become capable of multiple paragraphs containing points that have suddenly become salient, it creates additional disbelief for the reader. Most experienced forum users avoid this by citing a source. Technically, I should have cited a source for my initial chart. So I will now.

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/.../ACN%20MLM.htm

I am glad that you are enjoying your new word, propensity.

Thank you for that link! I actually checked out many of the links associated with the one you posted. Actually one of the authors stated that hge had no idea wether A C N was a successful network marketing co or a fraud. I did find this quote though! This is how ACN's bonus and pay structure really works:

ACN does not pay for acquiring new reps, at all, period. They pay only for customers acquired, and people can become customers if they decide not to become a rep. Even if they become a rep, they can still be a customer. It is a choice for the person to make learning about ACN and it's services and opportunity whether they will be a customer or a rep or both, or perhaps neither.

The bonuses are up front money paid for all of the customers signed up for services within a given time frame, usually weekly or monthly, depending on the billing volume produced by reps. The customer billing volume of the entire organization under each rep is what produces the back end residual income over the time that the rep builds his or her customer base with his or her team and their customers, as well as your own, continue paying their monthly bill.

If ACN paid for recruiting, it would be a pyramid scheme, which it is not. It is about acquiring a team of people to build a massive customer base, and an income from acquiring those customers both immediately with bonuses and throughout the future with residual income. Read and understand exactly how you are paid through ACN, and you can provide the correct information to the public about the ACN opportunity.

[fund razor]

I think that we have been looking at this the wrong way.

Ya know... most of us could have you in our downline by lunch, and it's almost noon.

[FLEG]

I think that we have been looking at this the wrong way.

Ya know... most of us could have you in our downline by lunch, and it's almost noon.

That's laughable! So your saying that you only pay 30 bucks for your essintial services in household? A C N uses that 30 buck example because that's what the digital phone service costs, and if it worked out in a perfect world like u said with the 256 people the residual is 11000, if you failed 50% its still a residual of 5500n still a 90% failure rate would yeild a 1100 dollar residual! Now even failing 90% do the math if every person had a personal billing of over 400 which is what we all py for our house hold bills not including energy so when we launch energy you can add atleast 300 to tghat figure so as you can see the math u did with the 30.00 means nothing, it can be much larger

[fund razor]

I used ACNs numbers, not mine.

According to the ACN handbook for new Reps, I believe that you were looking for "green apples" here but found some "red apples" and "rotten apples." Nobody to "edificate."

Having done enough research to compensate for your inability to describe the program in direct terms, I'd say I now see what Donald Trump sees: A pile of rubes with cons at the top; which from his perspective... is probably a reasonable business model.

[FLEG]

Ok, TCEd needs to get on the road. Let's break this down:

The entire business plan relies on the continuous flow of funds upstream from the recruitment money, as it far exceeds any potential residual revenue from customers, especially at the RVP level. The business plan also relies on the high drop-out rate of recruits.
The enrollment fee of $499 is divided among the up-line as bonuses. This money is cleverly disguised as a Customer Acquisition Bonus when that new Rep becomes qualified.

Meanwhile, you need 256 reps in your downstream to reach level 7. And all of those 256 reps are trying to get 256 reps in their downstream.

Let's take a look at how one acheives $100,000 in residual income per annum:
(Source: the link you like.)
Take an example of 20 direct customers.
You will have one Rep for every 20 customers.
With your direct billing at $600 (30 bucks a month estimated telecom resale billing times 20) your commission is 2%
Commissions are 1/4 of 1 percent (0.0025) on your downline's customers 5-levels down.
(That's 7½ cents per customer!)

Calculate the balance of customers required in the downline.
$100,000 - (20 x $360 x 0.02 = $144) = $99,856 income required from downline.
$99,856 ÷ 0.0025 (1/4 percent) = $39,942,400 annual billing.
$39,942,400 ÷ $360 = 110,951 downline customers

All I need is 256 reps and 110,000 customers in my downline and I can make a living. Meanwhile... for every 256 reps...there is only ONE of ME. And 255 downline suckers.

But hey. It's just a guess.

This example and math you used Fund is so far from accurate its not even funny!! When I have more time I guess I can try another way to explain it to you.. For 1 thing your calculations are all based on 1/4% much higher on levels 4,5,6,7

[fund razor]

The math shown is accurate.
Whether the data set used is accurate is a matter of opinion, it seems.

I'd use ACNs own slides from their own power point, but I don't want any copyright trouble. After all, this was simply an exercise for me. I am not impassioned.

[FLEG]

The math shown is accurate.
Whether the data set used is accurate is a matter of opinion, it seems.

I'd use ACNs own slides from their own power point, but I don't want any copyright trouble. After all, this was simply an exercise for me. I am not impassioned.

Ok so you seen the power point slides then, if it's the same one I saw when I searched it is a old one.. Personal Residuals are from 1/4 to 10%, Overriding residuals range from 1/4% to 8% thru level 7 and team cabs range from 3000 to 50,000 depending on the position..

Your math maybe right but its not figured correctly according to the comp plan..

Box 6 of the overview explains the overriding residuals for reps based on a 38.00 monthly billing.. This is the income in a perfect world where each rep found 2 more reps who acquired 20 services and it duplicated down 7 levels that would mean that 256 people are on your team if you did the math using the percentages from above on the correct level monthly residuals are 11000.00 that's if everyone did it correctly, not everyone works as hard as some so if it was only done 50% right its 5500.00 and it could even go lower depending on your ability and how you manage your team.. So as you can see the pay is solely based on how hard you work..

So for people that want to put the effort in and work at it, and wants a plan B that can put 3 to 5 yrs into the business it will work if you want it too.

Income is solely based on the efforts of the individual, I never said or implied you were gonna get rich in a month.. All I can tell you is the system works and if you make your team money, you'll make money and everyone is happy.. Hell I know people that have members on there team under them that have surpassed them in the comp plan..

I'm not the smartest kid in school but I know the system works, I guess you can continue to try and dissect the comp plan all you want but I'm here to tell you people get paid with this company..

I got a question for ya.. Why do you think the company pays a higher percentage on customers the lower they are in your organization?

[Buoy]

According to the ACN handbook for new Reps, I believe that you were looking for "green apples" here but found some "red apples" and "rotten apples." Nobody to "edificate."

Hey John - Am I a red one, or a rotten one?

I wonder how much $$ FLEG has made off this and in what time frame...

[fund razor]

Ok so you seen the power point slides then, if it's the same one I saw when I searched it is a old one.. Personal Residuals are from 1/4 to 10%, Overriding residuals range from 1/4% to 8% thru level 7 and team cabs range from 3000 to 50,000 depending on the position..

Your math maybe right but its not figured correctly according to the comp plan..

Box 6 of the overview explains the overriding residuals for reps based on a 38.00 monthly billing.. This is the income in a perfect world where each rep found 2 more reps who acquired 20 services and it duplicated down 7 levels that would mean that 256 people are on your team if you did the math using the percentages from above on the correct level monthly residuals are 11000.00 that's if everyone did it correctly, not everyone works as hard as some so if it was only done 50% right its 5500.00 and it could even go lower depending on your ability and how you manage your team.. So as you can see the pay is solely based on how hard you work..

So for people that want to put the effort in and work at it, and wants a plan B that can put 3 to 5 yrs into the business it will work if you want it too.

Income is solely based on the efforts of the individual, I never said or implied you were gonna get rich in a month.. All I can tell you is the system works and if you make your team money, you'll make money and everyone is happy.. Hell I know people that have members on there team under them that have surpassed them in the comp plan..

I'm not the smartest kid in school but I know the system works, I guess you can continue to try and dissect the comp plan all you want but I'm here to tell you people get paid with this company..

I got a question for ya.. Why do you think the company pays a higher percentage on customers the lower they are in your organization?

Conquer "seen vs. saw" and then I will read the rest of your post.
Meanwhile, you will never overcome the objections of the casual reader here. If the casual reader knew nothing other than your representation of yourself, they would pass. I have tried hard not to insult you, as I have moved to a position of thinking that it's inappropriate; but I have to admit that you make it difficult. Therefore, there is no need for me to post further to you and for me to be your foil or you my folly. Best of luck to you.

[fund razor]

Hey John - Am I a red one, or a rotten one?

I wonder how much $$ FLEG has made off this and in what time frame...

You my friend, are a rotten one. I am a red, gone rotten. I need to re-read and see what it says a rep should do when they get owned.

He says he is not the smartest kid in school. He did not however, indicate whether it was a public or parochial school... so I'll suggest public.

But it's just a guess.

We're overdue a phone call. I'll try to fix that, Tim.

Take care Jeff, may the Lord grant you 255 reps in your downline and a 400 dollar resold utility budget in all 100,000 pots, per capita, adjusted for attrition, and terminations, and void where prohibited by law. Or faith. Or copyright. Or Commen sense.