Question - how do we get boats under 30ft to participate in poker runs?

[Shanghied Again]

I also have to say, I have been to a lot of Poker Runs, NY, NJ, Florida, Canada. Most of the Poker Runs are who has the biggest, fastest, most expensive boat!
When I met Dave in 1999 after the Radar shoot out, Dave and his wife Kelly invited us to our first Poker Run.
At first I felt a little strange and out of place, not knowing anyone and yes having the smallest boat at the time that ran only 62mph didn't matter.
Dave runs an awesome club. One of the first clubs to welcome smaller boats, center consoles and cruisers. The NJPPC has get togethers, fun runs, pwc runs, and the Best Winter Party for members. Dave and Kelly have become true friends and he cares about his members.
Yes like any club you always have a few bad apples but the NJPPC weeded them out. The smallest boat we had in our club was Tim Sharkey with his 13ft Bullet "Crazy B" LMAO and George Desmond with his 120 MPH 18 Classic. I just think if some of the guys with smaller boats would get involved, they would find out that the NJPPC is not all about egos and big money. Just a Damn Great Boating Club.

[Geronimo36]

General Lee,

I didn't pay any mind to it. He said it in a joking way and we had a number of coctails together before the comment was made. I didn't take offensebut it just proved a point the next day of how people run WFO only to blow their stuff up at some of the runs.

His boat was admitedly slower and I just choose to run slower speeds instead of WFO. For me, running the snot out of my equipment and rebuilding it every year isn't fun. I go to have fun and don't really care how fast anyone can or will go.

I see what you're saying on the flip side and I've seen it happen both ways.

As far as asking what he/she does for a living, i really don't mind when people ask me. My opinion is that opportunity knocks around every corner. One of the people I asked what they did for a living gave me the job I have today and I'm glad I asked him!

It's all good!

[Geronimo36]

I also have to say, I have been to a lot of Poker Runs, NY, NJ, Florida, Canada. Most of the Poker Runs are who has the biggest, fastest, most expensive boat!
When I met Dave in 1999 after the Radar shoot out, Dave and his wife Kelly invited us to our first Poker Run.
At first I felt a little strange and out of place, not knowing anyone and yes having the smallest boat at the time that ran only 62mph didn't matter.
Dave runs an awesome club. One of the first clubs to welcome smaller boats, center consoles and cruisers. The NJPPC has get togethers, fun runs, pwc runs, and the Best Winter Party for members. Dave and Kelly have become true friends and he cares about his members.
Yes like any club you always have a few bad apples but the NJPPC weeded them out. The smallest boat we had in our club was Tim Sharkey with his 13ft Bullet "Crazy B" LMAO and George Desmond with his 120 MPH 18 Classic. I just think if some of the guys with smaller boats would get involved, they would find out that the NJPPC is not all about egos and big money. Just a Damn Great Boating Club.

I was chatting with a friend about it this afternoon. We were thinking, maybe more regular fun-runs and raft-ups would get more of the smaller crowds involved? The fun-runs don't cost anything (except NJPPC membership to be notified when the runs are) and they can tag along and decide if they like it. If they like it, maybe they'll want to do the poker runs!

[Baja Fresh]

One funny quote about the Biggus Dickus, look at my boat" comment.

This year, Bob Teague came to our Atlantic City Poker Run and at the end of the day he turned to one of our Directors and said..."hey there no jerks or azzholes here?"

The Director turned to him and said...."ehhhhh we weeded out all of the Jerk Offs about 5 years ago!"

LOL

The director should have turned to Bob and said, "Well, we have YOU here!" J/K!

At the Ventura POBRA races a few years ago my buddy had his boat there and was going to be a safety boat. Somehow he fried an impeller so he went over and asked Bob if he had an extra one he could buy off him. Bob sent his crew over with an impeller and they jumped on the boat and changed it out for him and didn't charge him anything. I know it wasn't a PR but that is the kind of thing that will keep guys coming back.

I've been snubbed by guys with the big MTI's and Skaters before. Don't know if it was because I only have a lowly "entry level" Baja or they were just that way with everyone. I'm sure some of these guys get tired of answering questions, especially from spectators. I love answering questions, especially from spectators. You never know when that spectator may turn into a fellow off shore boater.

How about a smallest boat award? Or smallest boat driven the hardest?

[MarylandMark]

I'm shy so steer clear of poker runs..

[Magic Medicine]

Dave,

I think what you did with the Waverunners is on par for what you can do with a "black jack" type of run. If the run is catered towards the smaller boats you can rope them in and show them how much of a good time you produce, then they'll want to join more runs. In turn they'll also aspire to own and buy bigger boats. It could be a win/win for everyone!

Another point. Running in a small boat with the bigger boats, even in a slow class on inland waters, they're going to get beat up with all the cross wakes. This used to happen when I ran poker runs in my old Panther and that was 30'... I hated the starts cause we were getting tossed around and beat up and had to motor thru to get out ahead of the sloppy water. Once the drama was over the rest of the run was great.

My Scarab only ran low/mid 70's and I had great times at all the poker runs and fun runs that I attended, even though most of the hardware I was running with were much bigger. In fact, I used to make jokes that my boat was cheaper than one of their engines.

One thing that used ot annoy the crap out of me was there was more hospitality and preferential treatment given to the big guns and a lot of the big guns would snub you off on the docks when they saw I had an 86' Scarab... They seemed unapproachable and didn't care much to make your aquaintance unless you had a top dollar rig. Regardless, I personally didn't go to a run to impress anyone or to buddy up with the big guys, I went to have fun with my friends.

The last poker run I was at, the guy parked next to me was asking how fast I was going to run. I told him we were going to run 60 mph... He seeemed dissapointed... Later on that evening I opened up the hatch and he saw the blower engines and then told me; "I'm going to feel really bad passing you at 75 mph tomorrow".. well, he blew an engine that day...

Anyway, lots of ego's with fast boats so if you show the little guys that you're all about having a good time and run what ya brung then I think you'll be golden and I think you're well on your way with that!!!

PS, I know of at least one guy at my marina who will be riding on the same boat I'm going to be on Saturday that didn't enter the run cause he felt it was too small. Me personally, I have no excuse other than my buddy is giving me a free ride this Saturday!

Love ya man, see ya Saturday!

Frank

Well put Frank!

[Tom A.]

I started in NJPPC in 2000 with a 22' Donzi Classic. I showed up for the A/C Poker Run kick off in the pouring rain. I really didn't know anyone but everyone was coming up to me smiling, telling me I was insane for running in the rain and welcome to the club you will fit right in! Only two people came by boat to breakfast, the rest drove their cars.
Through the years I upgraded from my 22 to a 29' Kryptonite and I will admit that a few times I said to myself what the f@*k am I doing here, these boats are way out of my league.
Well in 2007, I bought the boat of my dreams, a 2003 38' Donzi ZrComp. I finally made the big league. To top it all, NJPPC named me Powerboater of the Year. I was floored, not only did I fit in with my smaller boats through the years, I was being honored by my peers. I am glad to call Dave and so many of the NJPPC members my closest friends and it all started with a 22' Donzi and showing up for a poker run.

[Tom A.]

Ok one other thought. We are a tight knit club and as Dave said have weeded out alot of problems. Many of us have been there for 10 years and have been upgrading along the way. 10 years ago, my 38' would have made the top 10% for length. Now, it is only average size......

[BlackJack58]

Call 'em "Blackjack Runs" and don't allow anything over 38'2" to enter....

I might find that confusing... Would I have to attend all of them?

This is a great thread. Actually, I like Chris' idea about a Buddy System.

But I think NJPPC's runs sound very welcoming for owners of smaller boats, and the club makes it clear they are welcome on their website and promo materials.

The only thing intimitating about tying up next to a big-dollar boat would be my own apprehension regarding my docking skills, which are still under development. My natural tendency would be to keep a safe distance away...

[inbetween]

The Fun Runs/Poker runs out of the east side of Cleveland are all about a good time no matter who you are or what you drive. 20' to 50' it doesn't matter. Sport boat, run about, cruiser, you're on the water and that's a good thing. 35mph or 105mph - it's all welcomed. The people make the run what it is more than the boats.

[dockrocker]

My 2 cents - we're currently boatless, but would be one of the typical little guys as our last two boats were a 28 Powerquest, then a 29 PQ. The "big" local run for us was Smoke on the Water, and IIRC it was something like $2K for the run. That's damn near my entire gas bill for the season, and way way way out of my budget (then or now!). I think you have the right idea on the $199 entry fee.

To add to that, you have travel expenses unless you are local, so fuel for the rig, the boat, the entry fee, possibly hotel, etc. And as several have noted, the guy with a 290 Powerquest probably doesn't have the discretionary income as the guy running a 42 OL with 100K blower motors. Throw in a shaky economy where many folks are afraid of losing their job, and it is very hard to justify a $1000 boat weekend (when you add it all up).

So, you may not be doing anything "wrong", it may be that the timing is just not right for a lot of smaller guys.

[SKATIN]

The entry fee is $199 which includes 2 people for cont. breakfast, a killer BBQ for 2 at a Country Club which also will have a 2 hour top shelf open bar. And includes 2 poker hands.

THAT'S A DEAL!!

[sy goldberg]

Split the prize money into 2 parts with separate drawings with equal amounts for each group. I'm sorry that I can't attend but my new SUNSEEKER 50 SUPERHAWK has not arrived from England.

[Frequency]

I really appreciate the cool factor of the high dollar boats and don't feel the least bit intimidated, but don't get to enjoy the coolness except when the boats are tied up at the docks. I would be more likely to attend runs if the big dogs would hang back with the "regular folks" for a little while. It would be sweet to see and hear the big dogs running along side us for a bit before dropping the hammer.

[damdonzi]

You can tell when you have hit a great topic when people take the time to write more than single line responses.

It is a very difficult proposition in front of you to cater to 2 different classes of boaters,
and there are many great ideas brought up here. "Lower" comes into most every category.

Lower the speed class.
Call me crazy, but lower it to 50MPH as the minimum. My guess is that the 60MPH limit is probaly a very high percentage of most of the boats WOT speed that you are trying to target to get in these runs. A boat that can run 70MPH max sees 60MPH and instantly thinks that they have to run thier boat WOT (or close to it) for the entire run and that throws a switch off for them in their minds on a number of fronts. A less enjoyable experience for thier passengers, burning more gas, beating on thier equipment harder and longer than they normally would on a typical day of boating -remember, they are paying for something more than what they could do for free on thier own- in addition to the fact that they know there will be boats out there running double/triple maybe even quadruple what they are capable of. That is where I think alot of the intimidation factor comes in.

Lower the entry fee.
Looks like you have done this and brought in great value.

Lower the bar for VIP treatment.
By this, I mean set the bar to the same level for everyone. The second you start showing the entry that has a 22 Donzi the same experience as the entry with a 38 Donzi, you probably have hooked a member for life. From the way they are handled over the phone, at the run, docking, after the run....consistency is the key.

Lower the intimidation factor.
Someone brought up the buddy system entry, and that actually is a great idea. Maybe a discount for 2 boats signing up at the same time, which should appeal to every level of entry, will encourage people to get off the bench and try it out. If they happen to meet the jerk who looks down his nose at you (face it, the one thing you will never be able to change is a person's attitude and there will always be egos at these things) at least they will have another boat of friends with them.

Not an easy proposition by any means.

[yesrej]

being one of those small average boat owners (25 baja), what got me to start doing poker runs was the people. i had a few boat friends when i got my baja. they had cigarettes, cats and big motor boats. they pushed me to do my first poker run, so i did and it was the best thing i could have done. these guys never made me feel out of place and really made me feel that i belonged there with there boats. i walked away from that run not caring what kind of boat i had and just wanting to do more runs. i really think its about the people and the attitude that they give you.

[jwurl]

I just did the CPBA fun run on Lake Norman NC a couple weeks ago. There were two groups ,the under and over 55 CRUISE SPEED. The over 55 cruise speed left 5 minutes earler than the slower group. My Formula Fastech 27 runs 70 GPS, but I ran it in the 55 MPH group so it would not have to run wide open for 2 hours.. 30 boats showed up and about half ran the slower group and most boats were under 30 feet in that group also.. The system worked great... I think the price of the runs has a lot to do about the length of boats that show up.. Someone like me that only has a $125K boat, can not justfy $1000.00 or more for a poker run.. just my 2 cents.. Thanks, jeff Wurl

[Tommy Gun]

Last run I did had 5 different flights / classes and had welll over 100 boats many of which were smaller / slower. They also had a long course and a short course with a bonus for doing both, but only one pot. That way even those who did the short course had just as good a chance to win.

The fastest flight went first but went the opposite way from the take-off point then turned and did a "fly by" so all the other boats could watch them go by at speed. That was very well received.

Lastly there are runs specifically for smaller boats (i.e the Donzi and Cig 20 runs) which are just as much fun.

[BDiggity]

Last run I did had 5 different flights / classes and had welll over 100 boats many of which were smaller / slower. They also had a long course and a short course with a bonus for doing both, but only one pot. That way even those who did the short course had just as good a chance to win.

The fastest flight went first but went the opposite way from the take-off point then turned and did a "fly by" so all the other boats could watch them go by at speed. That was very well received.

& we chose to run in the low-mid 50's because like Geronimo pointed out i didnt want to abuse my equipment & break early. we had 6 people riding w/ us so my main concern was reliability & safety for us all. Everyone had a great time & will do it again next yr.

[VtSteve]

Last run I did had 5 different flights / classes and had welll over 100 boats many of which were smaller / slower. They also had a long course and a short course with a bonus for doing both, but only one pot. That way even those who did the short course had just as good a chance to win.

The fastest flight went first but went the opposite way from the take-off point then turned and did a "fly by" so all the other boats could watch them go by at speed. That was very well received.

Lastly there are runs specifically for smaller boats (i.e the Donzi and Cig 20 runs) which are just as much fun.

Sounds like a great setup. I love Dave's philosophy regarding being inclusive, and being rid of the BS. The biggest problem for the smaller boats is water conditions, as some have stated. The sponsor can't do very much about mother nature. But having the smaller boats leave first, or even a different direction as yours is a great idea.

One of the things people have to consider is that there's a lot more small boats than large ones. Do the math and it's well worth doing something for them. I'd pay $199 all summer long for a format like Dave's, a very good deal. It would also be great, as some have surmised, to promote the camaraderie and mingling of all boaters at these runs. Whatever floats is better than what does not. There are many smaller boaters that have the money to do whatever, but have different priorities. Some of us simply love the water, and have no need to prove anything with things.

I think there's so much openness in this discussion, I'm actually starting to get interested in the PR's.