Promoting a sport is promoting a sport. Doesn't matter what worked, what is working, what may work, etc.
What matters is everyone approaches it with an open mind, uses experience from all, and then make a plan to follow that is a living plan so it can be changed within a pre-set change-plan rules.
Really not that big of a deal, communicating all input into a constructive discussion seems to be the hardest part.
I bet I could get everyone on here to agree on several things that currently aren't working. And on several things that currently are. ie, Marathon, didn't work - St Clair, did. (Probably will get chewed on that generalization).
Like I said, discussing without mayhem seems to be the problem.
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08-06-2009 04:40 PMGetting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!
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08-06-2009 04:43 PMYou are correct about the racers having a voice. And they are exercising it as evidenced by SBI's boat counts. And OPA's as a matter of fact.
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08-06-2009 04:45 PMOh, and BTW, welcome Matt, glad to see you here.
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08-06-2009 05:20 PMThe point of the article has very little to do about the fact that there have been 4 race organizations and fighting and dissension among their members. Unless you are offshore forum regulars or a racer you probably know very little if any about the drama that has taken place. Regardless if there was one happy all get along race group or 4 fragmented fighting groups there still would not be a fan base big enough to put offshore racing into the mainstream. A single race group with more boats would make it better for the fans the sport has now, but for the average person it will still be hard to see, follow, and understand. That's the reason Matt states the following in his article
I completely get why the sport has never flown—and will never fly
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08-06-2009 05:38 PMThe problem with Matts final determination, there was a time when a race attracted thousands. This weekend, you should have tried to walk around the viewing areas during a race. I have no idea what the number of people watching the race were, but I'd guess over 30,000. And, there were 49 boats there. That's an increase from last year, not a decrease in these tough times.
The main issue to me, every time the sport gets close to "flying". Someone with a determination to make money off it steps in and ruins the growth. The same thing happens in other sports, ie Indy/Formula, IHRA/NHRA, AFL/NFL, World Football League/NFL, NBA/ABA, and on and on......
The difference, it is always close to the bigtime, not quite there yet, when it happens. Sometime review the Unlimiteds and their issues. And then see how they controlled them.....
Look at drag boats, UMI, Class 1, Austrailian Sprint Boats, West Coast River runners, etc.
Like I said, I'll debate it, just needs to be a positive discussion, not a slamming of everything.Getting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!
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08-06-2009 11:22 PMYou don't address OPA, which has the largest boat counts, or the overseas classes which have a huge following and very large purses.
I'll take it a step farther. John is the problem in my opinion. Due to his style of only having one thing in mind, what's best for John, not what's even best for SBI and for sure not what's best for Offshore Racing, the entire offshore group has been shattered over and over. If he truly ran it as what was best for SBI, I believe it would be in a much stronger position.
But, I said I wouldn't get into this until after this weekend.
I ran an almost exclusive OPA race a week ago, a combined OSS/OPA race this past weekend, and will be at the SBI race this weekend (not racing though). Report to follow.Getting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!
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08-07-2009 01:02 AM
Thanks Matt. :coolgleamA:
I just seems like it would be so easy to just have "real" 525, 700, 1075, & unlimited classes? I "think" much of the reason Nascar works, is because they are all running the same essential setup. Obviously this puts more emphasis on the driver, but the team gets more attention as well, making the whole group more marketable. Since the more people or "objects" you can put a logo on, the more sponsor money, have any of the racing groups REALLY tried hiring a marketing firm to present ways to increase interest?
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08-07-2009 07:32 AMThat's got to be one of the best, level-headed responses that I've ever read on an online forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...and that concept works great......as long as personal attacks and keyboard tempers don't flare up! Too many threads on the forums getoff track because people would rather call someone an azzhole instead of debating a subject. I'm not talking about this thread as it's been quite civil!
.....and thanks for having the courage to post Matt!!
Carry on
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08-07-2009 07:55 AMI also think it is the correct base concept to start with. And that it is extremely unlikely it will ever happen.
Many do not really want to race. They want to put on a demonstration and get a flag. That is fine. Just call it what it is. A race always has more than one competitor. I don't care if it's a foot race, a horse race, a car race, or a ski race.
I can give example after example of things that worked. I can also give the reasons they went away. So, just for discussion and thought. (None of the reasons they went away, think about these first)
Supercat - at least a dozen in Key West in 03 ?
F1 - 20 plus in the late 90's ?
F2 - 30 plus in the late 90's ?
Outboard Cat - Overseas
Class 1 - Overseas
The old Open Class - Rich?
Currently, SVL and outboard cat has the group of racers closest.
ANd the Production/Speed Evened classes. A little outside the intent currently, but still attracting racers, (like me).
And many more.
Start with what worked
Eliminate what did them in
And set sights on the future.
But don't throw up your hands and say it has never worked and never will.
There is a reason the X games get higher ratings than a soccer game here. What is it????? There are certainly more soccer players than skiers.Getting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!
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08-07-2009 07:58 AMLike Matt, I am a professional fan of offshore racing, having covered the sport seriously for 9 years at Powerboat. I also raced for about three years before similar spousal pressure and the birth of my son Blake made me decide to hang up the orange helmet. I admit that every time I see a race, part of me yearns to be out there. I tried to cover the sport with an optimistic approach and annually hoped that a coming season would be the year when everyone got together and made the sport as great as it could be. I think that the closest we got was when Gene Whipp was running APBA Offshore and, as much as some didn't like him, Michael Allweiss did a good job of bringing the sport closer to the fans. Matt's assessment is dead-on. It's primarily always been a serious hobby, not a professional sport, but one we can't seem to get enough of.
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08-07-2009 08:03 AMSorry Alec, have to disagree with you there.
The racers I talk to who are currently sitting on the sidelines are doing so for two main reasons. ( SVL is working because they don't allow those things)
1. Rules get changed late in the year, before the season starts, making it too late to do anything to be competitive.
The main suggestion I receive, make it so no rules get changed after Feb 1st, period.
2. Rules get changed making their equipment obsolete.
The main suggestion I receive, make it so 70% minimum of the racers/teams who raced the previous season have to agree to that rules change, otherwise no go.
And many of the racers do have their own money invested in it. Many......
Look at the SVL teams and talk to them. They do everything possible to help each other compete.Getting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!
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08-07-2009 08:10 AMHa! It's kind of like what it's like for us die-hard lifelong Redskins fans since little Danny Snyder bought the team. Every year, right about now, everyone is talking about how this will be the year that the 'Skins will return to glory....
... By November, we all realize (again) that another year has gone by that Lil Danny failed at his attempt of buying the best team in football. You have to build it!!!!
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08-07-2009 09:44 AMDead on Eric, and to add to that, Mike A. posted in another thread here (Great Unification) that in order for it ever to truly prosper, the organization should OWN the boats of the premier class. This of course would keep the best funded teams from breaking off and forming their own group ala OPT, OSS, and OPS. Now since that is unlikely to happen I believe a better scenario is a person or persons that can emulate a Gene Whipp or Ed Smith to the racers (respect, understanding, empathy) and also be able to have a business model closer to Mike A. or John C. (although I don't think John C. has had a broad reaching, growth oriented model in place) . Now the question is can one person do that? It would be a monumental task to balance the needs and desires of the participants and the business. It could be done, but so far the stars have not aligned, so here we are.
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08-07-2009 09:49 AMI can't get this to post correctly. But, this is my opinion of problem number 1. If you see any errors, let me know and I'll change/correct them. It's tough to read all the rule books. And there are still a couple of blanks.
Class Org. (s) Hull Size Hull Style Engine Size Engine Qty. Max Speed
1 Extreme/Turbine OPA Any Any Any Any na
2 Unlimited Offshore OSS 40' to 50' Any Turbine Any na
3 Turbine SBI 38' to 50' Cat Turbine Twin na
4 Superboat Unlimited/Cat Ext. SBI/OSS 40' to 50' Cat Any Any na
5 Superboat V Unlimited Ext. SBI 40' to 50' V Any Any na
6 Superboat V Unlimited SBI 40' to 50' V Any Any na
7 Supercharged Cat OSS 37' 2" to 46' Cat Twin na
8 Cat OSS 38' to 40' Cat Twin na
9 Cat Light OSS/OPA 35' to 38' Cat 525's Twin na
10 Vee OSS 33' to 42' V Twin na
11 Super Vee OSS 36' to 43' V Twin na
12 Supercat 850 SBI & OPA 36' to 46' Cat 565 Twin na
13 Supercat 750 SBI & OPA 36' to 46' Cat 510 Twin na
14 Supercat SBI 36' to 40' Cat Twin na
15 Super Vee SBI/OPA 34' to 40' V 525's Twin na
16 Super V Limited/Vee Light SBI/OSS 26' to 32' V 525 Single na
17 Superboat Stock/Cat Outbd SBI/OSS 28' to 32' Cat Any Outbd Twin na
18 P1 SBI Any Any Any Any 117 mph
19 Class 100 OPA Any Any Any Any 115 mph
20 P2 SBI Any Any Any Any 105 mph
21 Pro Am 1 OSS 21' to Any Any Any Any 95 mph
22 Class 300/P3 OPA/SBI Any Any Any Any 95 mph
23 Pro Am 2 OSS 21' to Any Any Any Any 85 mph
24 P4 SBI Any Any Any Any 85 mph
25 Class 400 OPA Any V Any Any 85 mph
26 Pro Am 3 OSS 21' to Any Any Any Any 75 mph
27 Class 500 OPA 0' to 30' V Any Any 75 mph
28 P 5 SBI 0' to 30' Any Any Single 75 mph
29 Class 600 OPA 0' to 26' V Any Any 70 mph
30 Pro Am 4 OSS 24' to 30' Any Any Single In/ Twin Out 65 mphGetting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!
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08-07-2009 09:53 AM
This has been a very good read and a smart, civil discourse on racing, so far. Thanks for all who have posted.
I've heard a lot of people say that racing needs to be "close to shore" so people can enjoy the races. And I think that will always make sense. But maybe, as some of the old-timers say, the sport also needs to go "back offshore" to some extent...
At first, it didn't make sense to me either - but (sacriledge aside) look at what the blow boaters do with events like the Volvo Ocean Race*, Vendee Globe and Sydney-Hobart races. You can't see those boats from shore, either. But they have point-to-point coverage with cameras on each boat, huge turnouts of fans at cities where they port, MILLIONS of people tracking the racers progress online via satellite mapping, online video and press releases every day on the status of the races. They get a good share of big money, high-end sponsors and lots of run. Companies feature their boat sponsorships in their regular advertising (Rolex, for example). And, of course, they are all controlled by a single, strong entity. Their basic formats are different, and during the current economic downturn, are struggling a little, like everyone else. But certainly there must be some lessons to be learned there.
It's also funny when you consider that sailboat racing is considered to be a "snob sport" (even this is admitted by sailboat racers) to which common people can't relate. Who here doesn't think offshore racing is louder, faster, more exciting, and a lot sexier? It certainly can be just as "upscale" (though SBI's "boat racing of the rich and famous" is a little too blatant a tag line for me--but hey, I'm just an old ad copywriter).
I guess my thought is, all of Matt's comments make perfect sense. But then I see that sail racing:
1) Is hard to follow and relatively far away from shore
2) Is esoteric and hard to watch
3) Is hard for the average guy or gal in the street to relate to, much less understand.
...yet in comparative terms, that sport seems to be doing better. Some will say it's apples-to-oranges, but I think there's enough in common to make it a worthwhile consideration. I hate to say it, but if we're always looking at NASCAR, maybe we're looking in the wrong place.
Just my .02
*Volvo Ocean Race Sponsor Data:
(from website) Key Facts
- Television coverage producing a cumulative audience of 2.0 billion viewers.
- Print media coverage of over 18,000 published articles in 11 territories, creating in excess of 686 million unique readers
- Over three and a half million unique visitors to the official website
- More than a billion listeners to radio race coverage
- 200% - 300% return on investment on media exposure alone for syndicates
- High socio-economic grouping with 37% of those aware of the race categorized as ABC1
- Awareness of competing teams increased by up to 30%
- Proven track record as a business to business and internal engagement tool
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08-07-2009 09:57 AMLook at the coverage of P1/Stock Outboard while you're reviewing things. Same type of scenario.
Getting bad advice is unfortunate, taking bad advice is a Serious matter!!