My reality based approach to healthcare....

[phragle]

A very valid point, but that brings and entirely new perspective to look at. With the astronimcal cost of healthcare and the fact that as a person ages, sooner or later they will have a heart attack, a stroke, cancer etc.. Thats basically inevitable. Its not like auto insurance, or home owners insurance, where its a calculated risk for the insurance company that you wont have an accident or your house will burn down. If healthcare has become so expensive that the average person has no real ability to pay for it and relies on a 3rd party to pay enormous bills when they eventually inccur them, how is it feasible for the 3rd party to exist long term? Or is implosion emminent?

[Chris]

With the astronimcal cost of healthcare and the fact that as a person ages, sooner or later they will have a heart attack, a stroke, cancer etc.. Thats basically inevitable.

Not necessarily. many people live long, issue-free lives. But that's going to begin trending downward. We're too dependent as a society on our health care system bailing us out from failures in our own personal responsibilities. we don't have the resources anymore to buy our way into long life. People are going to have to take better care of themselves and not depend on modern medicine to give them eight and nine decade lifespans.

The world of the 50's, 60's and 70's is gone. There's just not enough to spread around anymore. We no longer feed and equip the whole world. Other countries have caught up.

[mustang]

Reading this thread I believe valid points have been made regarding the expense of health care and the average persons inability to pay the sometimes astronomic costs. However, what I think is missing is WHY health care costs so much. Let's face it....that is a large part of the reason why this is such a hot button issue. Things have a way of becoming important when the costs become out of reach. WHY are the doctors charging so much. WHY are the insurance companies charging so much. Is it purely profit based? I don't think so. Is there a significant problem in this country with our lack of tort reform. In my opinion....yes. Today, we have become such a litigous society and we will sue a Dr. or hospital for millions of dollars for something that may just not be warranted. To validate my argument with example...I live in Chicago and read last month in the Tribune about a woman who had gone to Ghana on a humanitarian trip to render aid to the underprivileged. This woman was educated and employed as a nurse. She was advised to take the anti-malaria meds prior to her trip but in the article she admitted that she chose not to because she didn't want to deal with the side effects of nasuea and upset stomach. Photos taken of her in Ghana show her walking around in a t-shirt and shorts as opposed to a long sleeve shirt and pants to limit the skin exposure. Once she returned she felt ill. She waited 2 weeks to go to the DR. (remember that she is a nurse) She presented herself to Northwestern where she was diagnosed with malaria. As a result of the infection she lost her arms at the elbows and legs at the knees. It is a travesty and I wouldn't want to wish this fate upon my worst enemy. However, she has now filed suit against Northwestern for several millions of dollars indicating that they were negligent in not treating her aggressively enough (even though they gave her the anti malaria meds typical of treatment for this disease) and that is why she lost her limbs. Perhaps her decision to not take the meds before her trip, walk around in shorts and wait 2 weeks after returning ill from a 3rd world country. What I'm getting at here is a strong contributing factor as to why our health care costs are so high is because people file lawsuits for insane amounts of money in several unwarranted situations. Insurance companies have to pay out on these lawsuits because there is no tort reform. The insurance company has to increase the costs of their medical malpractice premiums. The Dr. has to raise his charges to accommodate that premium cost. Those charges are passed onto the patient and ultimately the insurance company. I don't pretend to think that this is the only issue but I do think it is a strong contributing factor.

[Chris]

The issue with health care is MANY things. There is no single magic problem. Tort reform is one. But there's no "aha!" moment to be found in the whole mess. There are many inefficiencies. And sometimes there just isn't any efficient way to rid the inefficiencies- the cure hurts worse than the pain, sop to speak. We could cure many of these problems, but the cure ends up costing more than the ill.

There is one overwhelming flaw in our healthcare system- OVERUSE.

We place too much of a demand on the system. The population uses more than we are capable of paying for.

[phragle]

There is one overwhelming flaw in our healthcare system- OVERUSE.

We place too much of a demand on the system. The population uses more than we are capable of paying for.

This basically sums up what I stated in my initial post..

Healthcare is a quality of life issue. Once we are born, we have life, there is no guaranty of the quality of that life. The quality of life is what we make it. By nature, the only universal law, the fittest survive, the weakest perish. This promotes evolution and prevents overpopulation. Those successful in life can make choices that provide themselves with Healthcare improving the quality of their life.

Somewhere a line has to be drawn. Whether its basic stabilizaition and pallative care for the masses and more advanced care for those with the resources to obtain it, or something else... Healthcare is a quality of life issue. A persons quality of life should be dependent on that persons motivation and resources to improve their quality of life.

[Davidmnc]

Somewhere a line has to be drawn. Whether its basic stabilizaition and pallative care for the masses and more advanced care for those with the resources to obtain it, or something else... Healthcare is a quality of life issue. A persons quality of life should be dependent on that persons motivation and resources to improve their quality of life.

I think we can all agree health insurance is extremely important for every one, but until the cost of health care is better controlled. It is just going to get more difficult for the average person to afford. And as long as people are aloud to use emergency rooms for their primary care physicians, the cost are going to continue to be out of site.

[jmoore32fever]

Phragle I appraise your choice to better yourself & take the risk of no health insurance... My GF who is 25 has chose to do the same thing in the past year for the same intentions as you to pursue becoming an RN... What I don't understand is people compainig about there tax $$$ possibly having to go towards someone like you or my GF because something catastrophic happened... I'm more then willing to help others who are not as fortunate as me that will @ least try & better themselves & in general make the world a better place to live....

What p*sses me off is paying for deadbeats who are perfectly able to work & choose not to because the goverment will give them all they want out of life from my tax $$$$ My GF works as a medical assitant @ a place similiar to an urgent care & It is also a doctors office... Some of the stories she tells, absolutely just floor me... People my age & younger (25) coming in that have never worked a day in there life & bragging how they never will on disability & pain meds with no logical proof that there is Even anything actually wrong with them, situtations like this are just the tip of the iceberg.

I hate paying taxes just as much as the next person, but in the end I think about people in situations like my GF, phragle & others who are trying to do the right thing, I can't believe some people on here are actually givng him a hard time & cutting him down for his choices.... Most on here make substantionally(sp?) more money than I & I am proud to live in a country that takes my tax dollars to help these kind of people in the event something goes wrong that they could not control.... The problem is not helping these people but giving our tax dollars to people like I mentioned above

[Birdog]

Phragle I appraise your choice to better yourself & take the risk of no health insurance... My GF who is 25 has chose to do the same thing in the past year for the same intentions as you to pursue becoming an RN... What I don't understand is people compainig about there tax $$$ possibly having to go towards someone like you or my GF because something catastrophic happened... I'm more then willing to help others who are not as fortunate as me that will @ least try & better themselves & in general make the world a better place to live....

Perhaps you can start helping by giving your GF 50 bucks a week to buy Catastophic Ins ?

[boostbros]

well theres 2 roads here with a huge difference theres a lot of us that fired our insurance co because of how bad modern medical and the drug companys have gotten i am pretty sure in a hundred years they will look back at how people were tortured with chemo and radiation and drugs that are toxic where the road has divided is as a group we are in much better health and manage our own care it really is very easy to learn, while the rest of my neighborhood brags about their goldplated health plans they don,t have to eat healthy or take care of their body because they can let someone else take care of it! i think the problem IS insurance let me throw out here you have a very expensive exotic car if you insure it for more than it worth you can abuse it and trash it or take extreme risk now try that with out insuring the car i will bet you are more respectful and take better care of it!

[jmoore32fever]

Birdog $200 a month, $2400 a year for just in case something severe happens? That in the end she would be paying on for the rest of her life regardless of if she had that insurance or not, becuase that $50 a week insurance wouldn't be worth a damn anyhow, & when her time was up tax dollars would still have to pay for it? Ya that makes good sense....

Quite honestly I'd like to put her on my insurance, been together 4yrs but because we are not legally married I can't.....

[DonziGirl]

And for their efforts, they were rewarded with a binge drinking powerboater who frolics with penguins....

Thanks for your high opinion of me

[DonziGirl]

Thank goodness for abortion

Whether or not you are pro-life or pro-choice this isn't something to take lightly.

I won't get into a debate about it but you should be thankful that your mother didn't decide to go that route

[phragle]

Thanks for your high opinion of me

Donzi.. I did NOT call you a Penguin......

[Birdog]

Birdog $200 a month, $2400 a year for just in case something severe happens? That in the end she would be paying on for the rest of her life regardless of if she had that insurance or not, becuase that $50 a week insurance wouldn't be worth a damn anyhow, & when her time was up tax dollars would still have to pay for it? Ya that makes good sense....

Quite honestly I'd like to put her on my insurance, been together 4yrs but because we are not legally married I can't.....

For what it's worth, We live in the same area and catastrophic Ins is not bad in Ohio. It doesnt cover hangnails and such but kicks in when the bad crap happens. I had for years with BC/BS

Is she in UCs Nursing program ? I know thats TOUGH !

[jmoore32fever]

She was in Miami's & didn't like the pace that it was going, there's a small basically A community college Bohecker that she is doing now that is strictly just eveything she needs to be an RN is year round & is averaging around 26-28hrs of class a week... I believe her plans are to get her masters @ UC or Miami when she is done with this....

[saber28]

[QUOTE=phragle;459860]Healthcare is a quality of life issue. Once we are born, we have life, there is no guaranty of the quality of that life. The quality of life is what we make it. By nature, the only universal law, the fittest survive, the weakest perish. This promotes evolution and prevents overpopulation. Those successful in life can make choices that provide themselves with Healthcare improving the quality of their life.

If we somehow perfected Healthcare, curing cancer, obesity and all the other maladies of life and provided it to all, fed and provided for all the poor and starving on the planet... Just what would that do to the human race? The population would grow uncontrollably. The earths resources would be depleted, crime would soar and unemployment would be rampant.

Universal Healthcare is not a birthright, it is a privilege that is earned. Paid for with intelligence and hard work. While this is not the popular lovey dovey answer, it is reality.


assuming you define successful as wealth, are you saying a wealthy wall street banker deserves better health care than a janitor? so people should live or die based upon their income? everyone is happy that you are trying to improve your situation, and i wish more people would, but many people might find themselves in a situation beyond there control and with out health care, according to your logic they should not get any care?

[Ratickle]

I think people have to make choices. The janitor to choose to buy a boat, new car, big screen color tv, or health care. It's the choices we make with our money that decides what, and when, something happens to us. I do not believe everyone has the right to have a heart transplant at age 80 or a new hip at 95. These are practices which keep driving up the cost of health care for all of us and have taken it out of the realm of reality.

The proposed new health care plan will effectively do away with company provided health care within a few years. It will also make it so everyone has the exact same coverage whether you have a job, take personal care of yourself, take drugs, overeat, drink excessively, or not. I do not believe that is the correct plan to follow.

My wifes company has already sent out the letter her health care will be eliminated if the bill passes because they will qualify under the "Cadillac" plan and it would cost the company too much additional money on top of the insurance to provide it (40%). Catapillar has estimated their additional expense at $100 million per year.

You can say what you want about everyone should have the same quality of health care. That is exactly what they have done in numerous other countries where the health care is much worse than ours. Socialism is socialism no matter how you state it. Next it will be that everyone deserves the same quality of car and car insurance? Or house and house insurance? It's been tried many places in the world. It has never succeeded.

[Tommy Gun]

I think people have to make choices. The janitor to choose to buy a boat, new car, big screen color tv, or health care. It's the choices we make with our money that decides what, and when, something happens to us. I do not believe everyone has the right to have a heart transplant at age 80 or a new hip at 95. These are practices which keep driving up the cost of health care for all of us and have taken it out of the realm of reality.

The proposed new health care plan will effectively do away with company provided health care within a few years. It will also make it so everyone has the exact same coverage whether you have a job, take personal care of yourself, take drugs, overeat, drink excessively, or not. I do not believe that is the correct plan to follow.

My wifes company has already sent out the letter her health care will be eliminated if the bill passes because they will qualify under the "Cadillac" plan and it would cost the company too much additional money on top of the insurance to provide it (40%). Catapillar has estimated their additional expense at $100 million per year.

You can say what you want about everyone should have the same quality of health care. That is exactly what they have done in numerous other countries where the health care is much worse than ours. Socialism is socialism no matter how you state it. Next it will be that everyone deserves the same quality of car and car insurance? Or house and house insurance? It's been tried many places in the world. It has never succeeded.

I will wait and see what is in the "final" bill, but I am likely to terminate my companies health insurance benefits as well. I have less than 50 employees so apparently am not subject to a penalty but now that these so called exchanges will be created why should I provide the benefit? My taxes will be going up to pay for this so I need to make that back somehow. This is the reality of what they are doing...this is not health care reform, it is another entitlement that benefits few and creates more deficit spending at a time in which our deficit is already out of control.

I don't care what any supporter says about the CBO score...this is more deficit spending. I don't know how anyone could truthfully say it will reduce the deficit when they are rasing FICA taxes to help pay for this healthcare bill. This just postpones the need to further rework Social Security...which will likely result in less benefits and even more taxes...all for the sake of this healthcare reform bill (in which the lawyers party convienently choose to ignore real tort reform). Next wait and see them pass the $250B "doctors fix" which was not addressed in this bill...than whats next? MORE DEBT AND HIGHER TAXES.

[Ratickle]

I don't care what any supporter says about the CBO score...

The CBO score about deficit reduction includes all of the following increases of taxes. The total is somewhere around a 137 billion deficit reduction with a 550 billion increase in taxes.

Projected revenues from the tax increases over the next decade:

— The new Medicare taxes would raise an estimated $210 billion over the next decade.

— The new tax on high-cost insurance plans, $32 billion.

— A fee on the makers and importers of brand-name drugs, $27 billion.

— An excise tax on the makers and importers of certain medical devices, $20 billion.

— An annual fee on health insurance providers, starting in 2014, $60 billion.

— The repeal of a tax loophole that could allow paper manufacturers to get tax credits for generating alternative fuel in the paper making process, $24 billion.

— Plus a new tax on investments would be on top of capital gains and dividends tax increases already proposed by Obama.

— And the president wants to increase the top tax rate on capital gains and dividends from 15 percent to 20 percent.

[Tommy Gun]

The CBO score about deficit reduction includes all of the following increases of taxes. The total is somewhere around a 137 billion deficit reduction with a 550 billion increase in taxes.

Projected revenues from the tax increases over the next decade:

— The new Medicare taxes would raise an estimated $210 billion over the next decade.

— The new tax on high-cost insurance plans, $32 billion.

— A fee on the makers and importers of brand-name drugs, $27 billion.

— An excise tax on the makers and importers of certain medical devices, $20 billion.

— An annual fee on health insurance providers, starting in 2014, $60 billion.

— The repeal of a tax loophole that could allow paper manufacturers to get tax credits for generating alternative fuel in the paper making process, $24 billion.

— Plus a new tax on investments would be on top of capital gains and dividends tax increases already proposed by Obama.

— And the president wants to increase the top tax rate on capital gains and dividends from 15 percent to 20 percent.

The supporters are a buch of lying bastrds.